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Did you put a check valve on the manifold sense line (top - VAC) to the WUR?
I think your boost onset is sensing full throttle and over fueling.
Old 04-16-2013, 12:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #101 (permalink)
DPHANS
 
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Nice project.
My new engine have arrived.
If some one need parts to a new project, Its her,
400 hp on a stock 2,7 engine, (twin turbo)
Fuelhead with 8 injectors plus 2 Extra injectors
SS Plenum house, throttle body, wur, and more
All this things can be sold separately.
BR
DPHANS

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Old 04-16-2013, 01:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #102 (permalink)
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I connected everything as per Tsuter's setup (picture below)



The Thermo Valve Connection has a 'T' which goes to the BOV and the Thermo Valve, from the Thermo Valve it then goes to the WUR.

Should I have a check valve in that line somewhere then?
If so I take it after the 'T' so only the Thermo Valve and WUR are affected.
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 04-16-2013, 01:20 PM
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copbait73, when you say the 'maniforld sence line to the WUR' is that the line that goes from the WUR (sticks out horizontally of the end of the WUR) to the thermo valve and then to the rear of the throttle body or the line that goes from the top of the WUR to the top front of the throttle body?

The last one I removed and capped on the throttle body due to most people saying its just vent to atmosphere for the WUR and so isnt needed to be connected.
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 04-16-2013, 02:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #104 (permalink)
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Get some gauges on the fuel line. It is difficult to get a stock fuel head and SC control pressure regulator to drop AFR's to 9 on boost.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #105 (permalink)
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I found and installed the CIS test gauge tonight.

Original SC WUR seem's to function normally :

Cold start (my AFR is aprox 10.1)


Warm (my AFR is aprox 12.4)



Pressure reading with the test gauge lever turned 90degree




Turbo WUR does not seem to function correctly.

The same reading is given for both cold, warm and with test gauge lever at 90degree

When connected the 930 WUR get gave a constant 14.4 AFR from cold which is reflected some what in the gauge reading.
The only thing I did notice is when the electrical connection is plugged in to the 930 WUR the pressure reading shown below
starts to bounce a few millimetres, the needle bounces that is.



Not sure if the 930 WUR is faulty in some way.
Or maybe its not getting enough pressure from the single standard SC fuel pump or something! But I would think it would at least be different readings for cold and warm!
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3

Last edited by gavinc69; 04-17-2013 at 12:31 PM..
Old 04-17-2013, 12:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #106 (permalink)
 
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Based on the system pressure, it seems the pressure is good.
Have you tried to measure the resistance in the wur. From memory I believe it is something 18-23 ohms. Others can correct me on that.
Old 04-17-2013, 01:41 PM
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Sorry for the delay. Need to know the N.A. WUR you have.

If one port on the top type WUR this needs to be connected below the throttle blade and has the check valve installed to prevent flow toward the WUR (allows VAC only).

If it has two ports, the bottom should be connected below the throttle plate and needs a check valve to prevent boost getting to the WUR. That means flow to the WUR is stopped. The twin ported WURs are described in the Bosch Repair Book is vacuum controlled full-load enrichment and full-load enrichment PLUS altitude compensating. Both types should have the top ported above the throttle (I think you have this one capped).
Old 04-17-2013, 02:39 PM
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On some turbo WUR, polarity matters. So, you could have a toasted turbo WUR, which will do nothing as you described. Your pressure is good from the pump. Total pressure has no effect on WUR operations, to a point.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:00 PM
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Thanks guys.

The SC WUR is 0 438 140 069
The Turbo WUR is 0 439 140 112

Not had too much time free, but did manage to install the boost gauge. Just need to connect up the electric feeds and its all done.
Next chance I get is Sunday so if there's anything I should try let me know.

After looking at images etc of various WUR the one that appeared to be like mine said the top port that did run to the top front of the throttle body was just a vent and
I read this was OK just venting to atmosphere which is what i've done.

The other port is going to the thermo valve and then to the rear of the throttle body in its standard location (see image in post above). There is no check valve and I did not install one as Tsuter's thread didn't say anything about installing a check valve (at least not that I could see).

How do I test the resistance on a WUR?

If the turbo WUR is faulty can they be fixed/rebuilt?

Cheers
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3

Last edited by gavinc69; 04-18-2013 at 01:09 PM..
Old 04-18-2013, 01:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #110 (permalink)
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My SC WUR and Turbo WUR look identical to each other, just like the one below :

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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 04-18-2013, 01:11 PM
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Just ordered an MSD 8762 boost retard controller.
Another thing to fit when its here
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 04-18-2013, 01:48 PM
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After some checking and a chat with the company that supplied the Tial wastegate and BOV on Saturday, it was suspected the BOV was faulty and dumping boost which was causing the sudden lost of power (dumping metered air) which was then causing the over rich reading.

New replacement BOV installed and now all is OK.

Boost gauge now fully installed and working OK.

Now driving the car the AFR results are :

Warm idle - 13
Cruise -14

General driving, not hard on the throttle AFR is from 13 to high 14's (sometime see 15 for a brief moment).
When you put your foot down it gradually rise's to very high 14's and then as the boost rolls on it drops to 13, I've boosted to .3 bar so far and the AFR stays at 13.
Don't think AFR is going to drop any further as boost rise's.

Still don't what to drive much harder until I get the MSD boost retard installed and try to get better fuelling.

I've found a company in the UK that are well known for the work on Bosch injection systems and work on WUR's.
I've send them and email regarding rebuilding my 930 WUR and the possibility of making it adjustable.

Home Page - Ken Mill Injection Ltd

Otherwise the car is running great, possibly even better than before the turbo install!
I can really start to feel the turbo come in and can't wait to be able to give it the full beans




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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3

Last edited by gavinc69; 04-21-2013 at 07:30 AM..
Old 04-21-2013, 07:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #113 (permalink)
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Gavin,
Where did you get the turbo oil catch can?
I think OBX (or is it GSF) offers one like it, but only with a purchase of their header set -- not alone.
Thanks.
Old 04-21-2013, 07:34 AM
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Hi Baloo,

As you say it came with the OBX headers.
I've not seen it as a separate item for sale anywhere. Although it maybe worth contacting OBX or one of the dealers.
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 04-21-2013, 09:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #115 (permalink)
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Been reading more about 'rising rate fuel regulators' that some of your guys have mentioned in previous post and threads.
I thought they only worked on EFI engines like the 3.2
Do they also work on CIS cars?

If so reading this info below it should do what I need if it can run in the system along with the WUR?

There latest version even allows for additional fuelling on the onset of boost which sounds ideal

http://www.bellengineering.net/product_info.php?cPath=7_76&products_id=4


When you need extra fuel flow through your injectors, the BEGi family of fuel pressure regulators are an ideal alternative to expensive ECU modifications for normally aspirated and turbo or supercharged fuel injection applications. Whether you need to richen up the mixture to accommodate exhaust and intake modifications on your normally aspirated engine or you need extra fuel only under boost on your factory or aftermarket turbo or supercharger system, the BEGi family of fuel pressure regulators can deliver the additional fuel while saving your ECU and wiring harness from possibly warranty voiding damage. Includes Fittings and Mounting Bracket.

The BEGi rising rate fuel pressure regulators (FPRs), also referred to as fuel management units, are designed specifically to provide additional fuel to EFI engines, whether normally aspirated (N/A) or pressure fed with turbos or superchargers. This is accomplished by using the manifold vacuum/pressure to drive the fuel pressure up as the boost rises, or with the N/A engines, as the vacuum goes toward atmospheric.

We introduced the rising rate fuel pressure regulator to the market over 20 years ago and we’ve been improving on that original design ever since. Why is the BEGi unit the best on the market? Billet manufacture, improved valve design, and fewer parts with the integrated accessory design. Further, we’ve increased the span of adjustment for broader rates of gain. Even the onset of gain is adjustable! No other regulator provides the onset adjustment. We also offer all regulators in a billet aluminum finish.

Models Rising Rate Regulators The BEGi standard rising-rate regulators are designed to increase fuel pressure and fuel flow in a fuel injection system by augmenting the factory fuel pressure regulator. These regulators must be used in conjunction with a factory regulator, which provides the base fuel pressure (the fuel pressure at fuel rail during idle conditions). Our Multi Role line of regulators are designed as stand alone systems and eliminate the need for a factory regulator.

BEGi has updates the valve design will provide a virtually indestructible regulator. It also creates a much more stable fuel pressure curve, and to top it off it eliminates the occasional various noises.

The new design allows adjustment for increased fuel pressure range, at the onset of that increase, thus providing stable pressure under the most demanding of conditions. The new regulator design has been tested to 450 psi, without failure or calibration changes. BEGi will be updating all the FMU'S with the new valve design. The new valve design will begin shipping immediately.
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3

Last edited by gavinc69; 04-21-2013 at 10:52 AM..
Old 04-21-2013, 10:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #116 (permalink)
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My 930 WUR has just been sent off to be tested and rebuilt.
Once back I'll try it again and see what results I get.
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 04-22-2013, 10:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #117 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavinc69 View Post
Hi Baloo,

As you say it came with the OBX headers.
I've not seen it as a separate item for sale anywhere. Although it maybe worth contacting OBX or one of the dealers.
I contacted them asking just this question after getting some GSF headers without a drip tank. They didn't bother getting back to me. Lucky I only paid $165 for the headers lol.

As it happens I just got a small tank made up for $75 with AN fittings TIG'ed on for feed and drain.

Good work on getting it running again. I am a little closer just waiting on the sparky to finish on the EFI loom. Almost there..
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #118 (permalink)
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After fixing the oil return the to the main tank issue I thought I was done in that area.
Whilst driving the car a little last weekend I noticed a small amount of oil bubbling
at the base of the small oil tank breather filter I installed.
Seeing as the car hadn't been driven far or pushed hard I though that could only get worse under more extreme driving so I have decided to install a oil breather/catch tank.
So I'll route the outlet made for the breather filter to the catch tank and hopefully this should stop any future problems.

Turbo oil return to main tank:

There is an internal 12mm pipe that runs into the main neck of the filler, so the turbo return oil is deposited as far down the neck as I could get it to minimize any getting back up towards the breather filter.
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3

Last edited by gavinc69; 04-25-2013 at 10:38 AM..
Old 04-25-2013, 10:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #119 (permalink)
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New bits arrived today :

Oil catch tank & MSD Boost Retard


WUR has been refurbished and is on its way back so maybe I'll get chance to fit all the new bits this weekend and go for a proper drive

Haven't even got this setup running fully yet and I'm already thinking about a K27-7200
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 04-25-2013, 10:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #120 (permalink)
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