Porsche Panorama - "The Last 930"

[rlane930]

Originally Posted by oh snap

They gloss over the emission aspect in the article. Basically Porsche couldnt modify a car bound for US delivery but "there is always a way and if people want to, they can do special things." Soooo, some kind of loophole I guess. Maybe the car was "delivered" to the customer (it was euro delivery) and then "immediately returned" to Porsche (or a workshop across the street, or to Ruf or ...) and modified from there. I dont know how the system works (or how it worked in 1990) but surely not every european car was individually emissions tested upon arrival. It would just be a US Spec 930 in the eyes of the law.

I don’t see how this car could meet emissions in 1990…did it have a catalytic converter? Why would Porsche AG bypass U.S. federal law to deliver a special wishes car? What’s the VIN? The most important part to verify this story is absent…why? In the mid-1980’s, Porsche lost over $5M in 930 lawsuits in the U.S. and then they delivered this monster with variable boost and 480 hp?

[willtel]

Originally Posted by rlane930

I don’t see how this car could meet emissions in 1990…did it have a catalytic converter? Why would Porsche AG bypass U.S. federal law to deliver a special wishes car? What’s the VIN? The most important part to verify this story is absent…why? In the mid-1980’s, Porsche lost over $5M in 930 lawsuits in the U.S. and then they delivered this monster with variable boost and 480 hp?

Keep in mind that in many areas of the US cars don't have to pass any type of emissions or inspection to be registered. Why are you so hung up on the VIN?

[rlane930]

Originally Posted by willtel

Keep in mind that in many areas of the US cars don't have to pass any type of emissions or inspection to be registered. Why are you so hung up on the VIN?

You are mixing 25-year used car exemptions verses new vehicles that have to comply with U.S. federal D.O.T. and emissions laws. Isn’t the VIN an important part of the story?

Here’s what you have to believe for this story to be true. In the 1980’s, Porsche AG is sued for $5M in the U.S. for 930 handling characteristics. They spend millions of dollars to “de-tune” the 930 turbo boost and fit wider rear wheels with additional suspension modifications for the ’86-89 U.S. model years. They receive a phone call from a “New Yorker” and fit a 480 hp engine, by-pass emission laws and deliver a car with a variable boost control.

[Six Gun]

Here’s what you have to believe for this story to be true. In the 1980’s, Porsche AG is sued for $5M in the U.S. for 930 handling characteristics. They spend millions of dollars to “de-tune” the 930 turbo boost and fit wider rear wheels with additional suspension modifications for the ’86-89 U.S. model years. They receive a phone call from a “New Yorker” and fit a 480 hp engine, by-pass emission laws and deliver a car with a variable boost control.[/QUOTE]

Also, that Mr. New York had more influence than Bill Gates and all the others that were not allow to bring 959's in to the country

[willtel]

Originally Posted by rlane930

You are mixing 25-year used car exemptions verses new vehicles that have to comply with U.S. federal D.O.T. and emissions laws. Isn’t the VIN an important part of the story?

If it was equipped with the emissions parts required at the time it would be allowed to be imported. I believe those would include a catalytic converter, an air injection system, and the vacuum delay parts to prevent timing advancement on a cold engine. None of those items had to be tested on arrival from the factory as this was a US car. If they were simply present it would have been deemed compliant and if the car remained in an area that didn't require emission testing they would never be inspected again. In the Atlanta area the seven metro counties surrounding the city do emission testing on a yearly basis as required for registration. Once you get outside of those areas no testing is done, ever. You can buy a new car and gut the cats on the day of purchase and no one will ever check up on you.

Originally Posted by rlane930

Here’s what you have to believe for this story to be true. In the 1980’s, Porsche AG is sued for $5M in the U.S. for 930 handling characteristics. They spend millions of dollars to “de-tune” the 930 turbo boost and fit wider rear wheels with additional suspension modifications for the ’86-89 U.S. model years. They receive a phone call from a “New Yorker” and fit a 480 hp engine, by-pass emission laws and deliver a car with a variable boost control.

Are you suggesting that this car and article is a farce and isn't the last 930? The Special Wishes program built plenty of 930s for the US with similar engine upgrades and manual boost control. That wasn't something unique to this car.

[willtel]

Originally Posted by Six Gun

Also, that Mr. New York had more influence than Bill Gates and all the others that were not allow to bring 959's in to the country

The 959 was never sold through dealers in the US. It never went through the federalization process required for a car to be road legal in the US. The lighting, glass, and safety equipment were not compliant with US standards and no 959s were ever submitted for US crash testing. It was also produced after the legal loopholes were closed that allowed European cars to be imported and "federalized" by those importers to be sold through the gray market.

The 930 was a federalized US legal platform. There is a big difference.

Bill Gates ran into issues getting a 959 into the US because he wanted one before the car was 25 years old and legal for import. After the car he attempted to import was seized by US Customs he and Paul Allen lobbied for the "Show & Display" import laws to be written and passed.

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by Six Gun

Here’s what you have to believe for this story to be true. In the 1980’s, Porsche AG is sued for $5M in the U.S. for 930 handling characteristics. They spend millions of dollars to “de-tune” the 930 turbo boost and fit wider rear wheels with additional suspension modifications for the ’86-89 U.S. model years. They receive a phone call from a “New Yorker” and fit a 480 hp engine, by-pass emission laws and deliver a car with a variable boost control.

Also, that Mr. New York had more influence than Bill Gates and all the others that were not allow to bring 959's in to the country[/QUOTE]

Cash is is king..especially in the 80's. Porsche like many others would build/modify a car to a customers liking if short arms and deep pockets were not a problem of the buyer.

The 930 was approved in the USA...the 959 was not. Money wasn't the issue, crash testing/DOT approval proved to be the problem of the 959....luckily that is a thing of the past..

[Six Gun]

The vin # is important and certinly relevant to this story. Without it all you have is a story.

If you owned the last 930 made, would you not insist on verifacation, or at least a COA, all of which includes a VIN.

[rlane930]

Originally Posted by willtel

Are you suggesting that this car and article is a farce and isn't the last 930? The Special Wishes program built plenty of 930s for the US with similar engine upgrades and manual boost control. That wasn't something unique to this car.

I'm not suggesting the article is a farce. It just seems more likely that the engine & transmission modifications happened here in the U.S. than from the factory. As you said, once in "Georgia" you can swap out the engine, mod the exhaust, etc. and the state does not care but if you do this in California it would be an issue. I'm sure this '89 930 was delivered with many special features (leather dash, rain sensor, Porsche crests, etc.) but a 480 hp engine?

From ’86-89, I didn't realize that the Porsche special wishes department could deliver U.S. 930's with different engines (are there posts of these cars on Pelican?). Andreas Gabriel’s new book, “Porsche 911 turbo, Air Cooled Years, 1975-1989” has a full section on a special option (DM 23,585) that contained a larger turbocharger, optimized air cooler and four-pipe exhaust to add an extra 30 hp but this was only available for '83-89 ROW 930’s.

In 1986, the 930 became a "world" car with catalyst and for the U.S., Porsche no longer had to build two engines (California/49-State) as all 930's complied with U.S. federal and all 50-state (+California) requirements. Did Porsche AG know this car was going to New York verses California? Did the U.S. federally mandated Monroney sticker (window sticker) have a new EPA mileage estimate for this special one-off 930? It just seems like a tremendous amount of work and risk for one car.

As far as the VIN, I would be interested to see if this was the last # for the '89 model year. Porsche is very secretive of tub/production numbers so it's possible that this 930 could have been the last to leave the factory but does not have the last VIN. The opposite was true for the last U.S. '79 930 that was built in 11/79 but there is an earlier chassis number with a 12/79 build. In addition to the VIN label, it would be nice to see the unique Monroney sticker that has the revised EPA estimate for a 480 hp 930. These would be fantastic additions to the article.

[oh snap]

From the article: "[Porsche] ran it through their legal department before they could officially say it was [the last 930], since that seems to have a different value and historical significance than being almost the last one. The legal staff determined this was the last 930 series turbo, the last turbo cabriolet, the last Flatnose."

Granted this is a quote from the "New Yorker" but it is an article in Panorama after all. I imagine they have the connections and resources to confirm his story before giving him a cover and a feature (not to mention the pictures have been on Porsche's facebook page). The skepticism is unwarranted in my opinion.

Anyway, I dont believe they were always VINd in the order they were built. There may be a later VIN that is not the "last" 930.

[patina]

Originally Posted by oh snap

From the article: "[Porsche] ran it through their legal department before they could officially say it was [the last 930], since that seems to have a different value and historical significance than being almost the last one. The legal staff determined this was the last 930 series turbo, the last turbo cabriolet, the last Flatnose."

Granted this is a quote from the "New Yorker" but it is an article in Panorama after all. I imagine they have the connections and resources to confirm his story before giving him a cover and a feature (not to mention the pictures have been on Porsche's facebook page). The skepticism is unwarranted in my opinion.

Anyway, I dont believe they were always VINd in the order they were built. There may be a later VIN that is not the "last" 930.

You also have to take into consideration the build time on this car. While it may not have the last VIN it may be the last one to leave the factory.

[oh snap]

Exactly. It wasnt finished until May 1991 according to Pano. Im just saying that the VIN itself isnt necessarily an indicator of build order. I seem to recall a thread on Rennlist about someone with a VIN that fell "after" Seinfelds "last" 993 which brought up the subject of VIN numbers and production order.

[Raceboy]

Regarding thr 930 lawsuits against Porsche, these kind of things are possible only in US I guess....What an idiots.

Is there an instruction manuals how to use forks also and warning that if one pushes the fork too deep into throat it might kill?

[M5guy]

Is there an article somewhere on the first 930? I would find that far more interesting.

[rlane930]

Originally Posted by M5guy

Is there an article somewhere on the first 930? I would find that far more interesting.

I’ve seen very little information on the first “production” 930. The Porsche Museum Secrets video had a nice segment on a ’73 911 Turbo owned by Louise Piëch, but it was not a production 930. The September 2012, Excellence Magazine featured an article on ’76 U.S. Turbo Carrera, 9306800011 with an image of the Porsche AG letter with records showing 9306800011 was indeed the very first 911 Turbo built for the U.S. market. This article confirmed that for '75-79 930's, Michael Cotton’s 911 Turbo book VIN sequence is correct starting the chassis numbers at “0011” vs. "0001" (almost all other sources in print/web are incorrect). There were additional preproduction 3 liter and 3.3 liter cars (first five chassis #’s) but I have seen very little in print or on the web.

In my opinion, if the last ’89 in Panorama was truly built by the Porsche factory with a 480 hp engine, it was probably built to ROW 930 specifications and the New Yorker simply brought the car into the states as a gray market 930. The VIN would tell us all of this information and would add to our body of knowledge on the 930. Mr. New Yorker, please show us your VIN

[cellison]

Originally Posted by rlane930

The VIN would tell us all of this information and would add to our body of knowledge on the 930. Mr. New Yorker, please show us your VIN

Someone should write to the editor at Panorama asking about the VIN.

[Novelty Fashion]

Linton is likely the same guy who ordered the "last 928", and backed out when he found out the factory was going to build the TRUE last 928 for their museum, while he would get the "last one for public sale". I guess he has a hardon for owning the "last one". The comment in the article comparing the "last" to the "nearly last" is telling.

It was even more vulgar than this car, (and I find this car boorish and tawdry). Custom purple interior, green paint, leather all over everything. Sticker was north of $160,000 as I recall. Very hard sell. A pimp would say it was in poor taste.

Here it is; $168,000 before delivery charges. $185,000 out-the-door. The custom purple seat belts alone were $9,000 because the company had to dye an entire roll of seatbelt webbing to get the belts for his car.

Linton's 928 sticker and option breakdown on factory buildsheet:

PearlglanzGTS

DRIVELINE SYSTEM

The Final 928 GTS

The last one says that Porsche's policy is to build the TRUE last car for their museum. I wonder if and why that policy changed from 1989 to 1995, when he tried to get the LAST 928 and that didn't happen.

[BlkBird]

Sorry, and I know many will disagree, but it's a slant nose. Bad way for a beautiful car like the 930 to go out.

[Tilikum Turbo]

Shattering machine...yes, money changes everything. That is one VERY special Porsche.

Drop-dead gorgeous to boot!!

I believe the aspect of it not being driven is up to whom ever owns the car, and that's the right of the owner to make it a muesuem piece, or drive the wheels off of it on the track. I fault no one for either approach.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by Novelty Fashion

Linton is likely the same guy who ordered the "last 928", and backed out when he found out the factory was going to build the TRUE last 928 for their museum, while he would get the "last one for public sale". I guess he has a hardon for owning the "last one". The comment in the article comparing the "last" to the "nearly last" is telling.

It was even more vulgar than this car, (and I find this car boorish and tawdry). Custom purple interior, green paint, leather all over everything. Sticker was north of $160,000 as I recall. Very hard sell. A pimp would say it was in poor taste.

Here it is; $168,000 before delivery charges. $185,000 out-the-door. The custom purple seat belts alone were $9,000 because the company had to dye an entire roll of seatbelt webbing to get the belts for his car.

Linton's 928 sticker and option breakdown on factory buildsheet:

PearlglanzGTS

DRIVELINE SYSTEM

The Final 928 GTS

The last one says that Porsche's policy is to build the TRUE last car for their museum. I wonder if and why that policy changed from 1989 to 1995, when he tried to get the LAST 928 and that didn't happen.

I was speaking with Bob yesterday and you guys are speculating and completely off base. Bob was not the person who ordered the last pearlglanz GTS. I have seen his cars and the stories behind them are quite fascinating. His 1 off 964 America GS has to be one of the nicest exterior colors I have seen on any Porsche. It was a variation of the color used on the Panamericana prototype. I would take it over my cobalt and there are no other colors i would say that about. The interior is rather garish and was not of his design but looks far better in person than I expected. Photography seems to throw it all in your face at once. Despite that I would have any of his cars in a heart beat and I like black interiors so wild colors are usually out for me. As far as the turbo it is way over the top but an absolutely stunning example. I could do without the BBS wheels which time has shown they look dated but the car is amazing with craftsmanship I have not seen on other Porsche's.

It was a US spec car and did have far more HP than any other 930. Boost could be adjusted and IIRC Bob said it could achieve over 500BHP at full boost. This car in itself is probably one of the most significant cars made by Porsche. It opened their eyes to what could be done and what people were willing to pay. There were technology breakthroughs that are incorporated into todays cars that were created for this car. This car is priceless in that respect alone. No doubt one day it will end up in the Porsche Museum where it belongs.

Just realized the last post was in 2013 not sure why I received an email blast saying someone responded. Either way what I said is correct.