Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Tinkering Pays!!
 
mooney265's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 1,365
Garage
Here are my BL Settings since 4/2009. I didn't track all of the parameters I do now, but would recommend anyone to track all of these.

As you can see, the initial Boost CP was very low and caused the car to run very rich under boost.


__________________
LIVN80S - - Red '79 Porsche 930 Steel Slant Nose Conversion [in 1987] w. 46k miles 3.3L; 964 Cams; K27HF @ 1.0 BAR, with Garrettson Intercooler; Rarly Zork; CIS Flowtech Fuel Head & BL-WUR.
Old 02-16-2013, 02:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
jsveb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Norseman territory
Posts: 2,796
Garage
Very Nice Mooney.

When I get around to driving the 930 again and try to get it tuned, I'll log mine as well in log works. Got afr, rpm and a pressure transducer along with boost.

Should be interesting to see.
__________________
Jesper
Carrera 3.0 1975
930 1978 OEM Matte Schwartz, ANDIAL IC, BL WUR, SC cams. LMA-3 w. XD-16 and CP transducer
www.stauningwhisky.dk
Old 02-16-2013, 05:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Smart quod bastardus
 
fredmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 2,235
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsveb View Post
Very Nice Mooney.

When I get around to driving the 930 again and try to get it tuned, I'll log mine as well in log works. Got afr, rpm and a pressure transducer along with boost.

Should be interesting to see.
please post the results to the forum so we can see the data.

Fred
__________________
1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 03-14-2013, 05:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
jsveb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Norseman territory
Posts: 2,796
Garage
I will. I am just back from tdy. Adjusted the valves and checked head nuts last Sunday before leaving.

When I get a chance to drive, and log, I'll post.
__________________
Jesper
Carrera 3.0 1975
930 1978 OEM Matte Schwartz, ANDIAL IC, BL WUR, SC cams. LMA-3 w. XD-16 and CP transducer
www.stauningwhisky.dk
Old 03-14-2013, 03:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 350
Guys - I might start mesing with the WUR adjustments in the next couple days - so - just so I know - when adjusting warm CP or Max Boost - what kind of adjustments are we talking here? Like if I wanted to bring warm cruise AFR from 13.5 to 14.5 - are we talking 1/4 turn? 1/2 turn? or? Or if I want to bring boost AFR from 10/10.5 up to 12 - about how much adjustment should that take?

Thanks-
__________________
Brandon
'91 911 Turbo
'00 Audi S4 highly mod'd DD
Denver, CO

Last edited by turbo ride; 03-18-2013 at 06:57 PM..
Old 03-18-2013, 05:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,289
You really need to have an accurate wide band in the car or you're just guessing and you'll never know where it is.

I have an innovate wideband AFR gauge on board permanently and when I was adjusting mine I left the control pressure regulator on the 2 studs it mounts on but without the nuts holding it down so I could pull over somewhere shut the car off and slide it up off the studs, turn it sideways a little with the hoses attached and adjust the 4mm allen head for the steady cruise 1/4 turn at a time most of the time until i was real close to where i wanted it to be and then turn it less to make fine adjustments, or the three 3mm ones for the boost threshold adjustment, etc.

I used a C Clamp to press in the boost enrichment thing to lean it out and used the tool Brian leask gives you to draw it out to lower boost control pressure and richen up the boost enrichment AFR's.
I have the CIS pressure gauge but never used it when adjusting the control pressure regulator because it was never far off and the AFR gauge told me exactly what I needed to know.
Then I would hook up the CIS gauge when done sometimes to know what I had adjusted it too.

Anyway, the amount your looking to change yours may be different than my car so it's hard to say but from my experience I'd guess around 3/4 turn in on the 4mm steady cruise allen head adjustment to increase control pressure a little and go from 13.5 to 14.5 steady cruise AFR. That may be too much or it may have go a full turn or more on yours.
I have a CIS flowtech modified aluminum ex-lambda fuel head adjusted for 20% more fuel under boost though so my experience is only with it. It takes a while to get it just right but when it is the car runs perfect all the time and every time. My car starts and runs absolutely perfect and smooth every time and all the time.
It took alot of work though... like a hobby for me.

Again, you absolutely have to have a wideband AFR gauge because every car is a little to alot different.
So many things on a 25 year old control pressure regulated mechanical fuel injection system with possible vacuum leaks in so many different places, worn rings and or valves, different mufflers, ignition timing, etc. etc. etc... the list never ends.
So many things can make every one of these old cars a little different.
Old 03-18-2013, 06:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 350
BTW I do have a wideband - just trying to get an estimate so I might be able to reduce the number of times I have to take the WUR off...learn from you guys rather than trial and error ;-)

Good call on just sliding the WUR onto the studs. Did you also install a longer hose from the TB?
__________________
Brandon
'91 911 Turbo
'00 Audi S4 highly mod'd DD
Denver, CO

Last edited by turbo ride; 03-18-2013 at 07:03 PM..
Old 03-18-2013, 06:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,289
"Good call on just sliding the WUR onto the studs. Did you also install a longer hose from the TB?"

Yes, because I have my own digital RPM switch and vacuum solenoid setup in that hose to delay the boost enrichment signal going to the control pressure regulator until around 4600rpms.

Now that hose from the TB to the WUR is around a foot long so it doesn't restrict pulling the WUR up off the studs and moving it around.
Old 03-18-2013, 07:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 350
Cool thanks - I like that. I will steal that idea (and prolly others in the future) from you :-)

Ok question - I have not touched the WUR yet - but I will admit a rookie mistake and I changed the CO adjustment in the fuel head last weekend because it was reading pretty lean - THEN I realized/remembered to disconnect the air pump. oops. (FYI it was affecting my gauge by about 3.5 - 4.0) So I've been fixing that. I had warm idle at 13.5 for a day or two - then today it's back to about 15.0?!?! I get how it takes multiple adjustments to dial it in - but it was constant for a couple days until today. How common is that?

Thanks guys-
__________________
Brandon
'91 911 Turbo
'00 Audi S4 highly mod'd DD
Denver, CO

Last edited by turbo ride; 03-19-2013 at 08:02 PM..
Old 03-19-2013, 07:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 350
I was going to steal Jim's idea of a longer vacuum hose to the WUR so I could easily slide it on and off while making adjustments - however the fuel lines are too short! So I guess I'll have to disconnect them every time I need to make an adjustment (except for CCP if necessary...) So anyway - can somebody give me a ballpark range on how much the Full boost fitting on the bottom of the WUR needs to be pressed in lean out Full Boost AFR from 10.0 to ~12.0? Are we talking 1mm? 4mm? Just looking for an idea - if possible....

TIA-

Thanks.
__________________
Brandon
'91 911 Turbo
'00 Audi S4 highly mod'd DD
Denver, CO
Old 04-08-2013, 05:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chas, SC
Posts: 1,041
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
Now that hose from the TB to the WUR is around a foot long so it doesn't restrict pulling the WUR up off the studs and moving it around.
Regarding the hose from the WUR to the TB, when my WUR is mounted, there is only about 1/2 inch space between the hose fittings of the WUR and TB, resulting in a hose that is approx 2 inches long. So how do you have the extra space for a foot long hose????

It is a little tricky to lift my WUR off the studs, as the hose fittings are so close there is not much flex in the hose. I have repositioned my WUR to increase the hose length to make adjusting the WUR much easier. I also have the Leask WUR...
__________________
Tim
1986 930
Gone:71,2,4 914's, 70T, 71T(RS),77S
Old 04-08-2013, 06:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 350
I did add a longer vacuum/boost hose from the TB - a foot sounds about right - it just loops around. That little short hose is a PITA. So this will help. Still need to disconnect my fuel lines tho. Oh well. I made a small adjustment to the warm cruise and also knocked the full boost enrichment in a mm or so since it was pretty darn rich at 10.0.

It's snowing pretty hard so now I gues I'll just wait and hopefully be able to take her out this weekend....
__________________
Brandon
'91 911 Turbo
'00 Audi S4 highly mod'd DD
Denver, CO
Old 04-08-2013, 08:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Bob930slant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Abbotsford, Canada
Posts: 36
Garage
I was going to try the longer hose option too. Instead i made a riser out of 1" flat bar. This let me rise the Wur 1" straight up and the 4mm is open from below for adjustment. i did not have to change any hose length. the mount is solid.

there was a minor clearance issue with air regulator. i moved the Air reg over about 4mm and everything clears and is working fine. I will clean it up and paint it on the weekend after the final tune.

Bob

__________________
81 930 Turbo RoW, Slantnose, 3.5 twin plug dual MSD 6AL ignition, MSD RPM Activated boost rdelay switch set at 4400, MSD Tach Adapter, BL Wur, 18x11 (315-30-18) and 18x8 (235-35-18), Fab speed exhaust, Innovate MTX, K&N Filter Mod., NGK BPR7EIX and DPR7EIX plugs, KEP Stage II PP with Street/Race Organic Disk., Weltmiester Swaybars, Adjustable AAR Mod, AAV Delete
Old 04-08-2013, 10:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #33 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 350
Hey guys-
Well I think the snow may have finally stopped here in Denver. Got to start driving the car again. I've also started to fine tune the WUR. Which means more questions....

(reminder car is a 964T - stock but for 1 bar spring)

So I had dialed in the warm idle AFR to 13.5-13.7 with O2 disconnected (and air pump).
So warm cruise was about 13.5, too and Boost was at 10.0 or less. I leaned out the warm cruise and am now around 14.2. But it threw warm idle AFR off(lean) - so then I had to richen it up. I need to see if it richened up the warm cruise now...grrrr.

I tapped in the boost enrichment adustment what seems to be pretty much all the way and it is at about 10.6/10.7 - still a little rich.

So it just seems that my adjustments are fighting each other. Am I doing something wrong or missing something?

What should I do about boost enrichment being at about 10.7 with what seem to be no adjustment left?

I am still conserned as to what will happen once I reconnect the air pump - isn't the air is pumped in before the [normal] O2 sensor? How can that not totally throw off the readings when the O2 sensor is being utilized??

For the record I think I'm at 13.7 warm idle (w/ O2 disconnected, 14.0-14.2 cruise (need to verify since I just riched up the mixture again - I was at 14.2 before bring idle back to 13.7 from 14.1), and 10.6 at full boost - maybe it's "good enough". ???

Thanks again guys - any and all input appreciated.
__________________
Brandon
'91 911 Turbo
'00 Audi S4 highly mod'd DD
Denver, CO

Last edited by turbo ride; 04-27-2013 at 02:33 PM..
Old 04-27-2013, 02:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #34 (permalink)
newbie
 
timspu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Devon. UK
Posts: 218
Garage
Hi Brandon,
I am starting down the same road. Previously i was just adjusting the WUR based on AFR. I could not lean it off greater than 10.6. My Warm cruise was 14.7 and idle was 13.7The boost enrichment was banged nearly all the way in.
Since the car has been off the road i decided to set the wur up to the manual specs but on the leaner side.
Currently i now have the following pressures after adjustment.
SETTING PSI / BAR/ BOOST
COLD
WARM UP 56 / 3.9 /
BOOST ENRICH 44 / 3 / 0.8 BAR
THRESHOLD 6 / 0.4 /

What i did notice was what a huge affect the Boost threshold adjustment had. My threshold cut in at 3psi (0.2 bar)which per Brians' manual is too early. I adjusted the threshold until my fuel pressures reduced starting at 6psi.(0.4bar) Whilst adjusting threshold i noticed the the enrichment pressure was increasing which would give a leaner AFR when running. i now have the above fuel pressures which is now as per the manual spec but on the leaner side. When does your boost threshold start? ( I had to wind the 3 set screws quite a way in to change the threshold to a higher pressure.)
I have started the car and warm idle is now 13.4 AFR ( Air pump disconnected).
The car is booked in for its yearly inspection on Thursday so will not be able to drive until then as there is no road tax on the car. I am expecting it to run on the leaner side at cruise , probably mid 15's so expecting fine tuning using the AFR.

i will post my updates when i have driven the car. Perhaps we can use both our experiences to set up our cars.
My car has a 3LDZ Turbo, standard intercooler, K&N air filter, GSF headers and Rarely8 Street muffler running standard boost.

Good luck
TIM
Old 04-28-2013, 12:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #35 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 350
Good info Tim - thanks! So maybe the Boost threshold adjustment is the key here. I will look into that - hopefully today.

Yes - let's keep the information flowing.

Thanks

Brandon
__________________
Brandon
'91 911 Turbo
'00 Audi S4 highly mod'd DD
Denver, CO
Old 04-28-2013, 05:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #36 (permalink)
Registered User
 
M5guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 308
Some quick disconnect fittings on the fuel lines can make on the road adjustments a little easier. Summit Racing or a BMW motorcycle shop.
__________________
SR
86 930

x: 62 356, 64 356, 76 930, 84 911 Targa, 85 ROW 911, 00 996, 07 Cayman S.
Old 04-28-2013, 07:17 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #37 (permalink)
newbie
 
timspu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Devon. UK
Posts: 218
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo ride View Post
Good info Tim - thanks! So maybe the Boost threshold adjustment is the key here. I will look into that - hopefully today.

Yes - let's keep the information flowing.

Thanks

Brandon
Hi Brandon,
Just got the car with my LM1 fitted and it is still not where i want it to be. With setting the WUR to the leaner side of the manual specifications i was expecting the AFR's to be quite lean. To my surprise they weren't. i was set at 13.4 AFR at Idle, and it was running 14.3 at cruise and still 10.2 on boost. Scratch head as this is richer than before the adjustments.
So i have adjusted the warm idle by turning it CW by one full turn. Now i have 15.2 AFR at warm cruise. All was running well until i noticed the AFR on cruise dropped to 11.1 and remained there all the time even at idle. Not sure what happened. So i left the car for an hour and then re started it and the AFR idle returned to about 13.8 AFR. So back to the drawing board. I believe i may have had an issue with one of the fuel pumps/relay as that is the only idea that comes to mind which would richen my AFR's for no reason.

Thats it for now until next run up.
Old 05-04-2013, 07:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #38 (permalink)
 
newbie
 
timspu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Devon. UK
Posts: 218
Garage
I think i have found an issue, if i pull the relay for the front fuel pump to stop it running my rear pump is very noisy and fluctuates in pressure between 5 bar and 5.7 bar.
With both pumps running it is quiet and get 6.2 bar. So i think the rear pump just cavitates without the front pump on.
I have a feeling the rear pump is intermittently failing so when on boost i don't have enough control pressure to keep it above 10.2 AFR.
Can anyone confirm if the rear pump should be able to provide over 6.2 bar without the front pump on?
Thanks
Old 05-04-2013, 12:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #39 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 350
So did you get that figured out? Sorry I'm no help there - I think the 964T system is a bit different. I'm also working with an AFR meter (no pressure gauges).

I guess I'm inching closer. Got idle, cruise and boost done (albeit still rich but no adjustment left in the WUR....this is one of my remaining questions). Have been messing with cold starts and something went goofy - either had a bad IC - TB seal or I fouled the plugs. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE just be a bad intercooler>throttle connection!! Should know tonight.

__________________
Brandon
'91 911 Turbo
'00 Audi S4 highly mod'd DD
Denver, CO
Old 05-08-2013, 12:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #40 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:30 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.