How soon after getting your car before engine rebuild
 

Guys, I know we all try to do our homework before buying these cars. We do so by getting a PPI, the cars history, etc. before making the purchase. But, how many years or miles did you drive your car before finding that the engine needed more attention than initially thought?
And, would you shy away from a car that has had a recent rebuild by a Porsche Technician?

Rob

During a 30 year love affair I have had with these cars which has included, four 930 cars, the most important lesson I have learned is the importance of pedigree. You will pay a premium for when you buy it and can demand a premium when you sell it. I realize that the older these cars become, the harder it is to find one that meets that measure. They are out there though.

As far as a rebuild by a Porsche tech; if it fits into the above mentioned criteria, go for it but insist on documents. Good luck, and remember the search is half the fun.

2 weeks. A few hundred miles. I was pretty sure that I could hear the gentle pitter patter of leaking cylinder head gaskets, and assumed that it had broken studs. I bought it accordingly .

I drove mine for 75 miles before running into trouble. PPI from Porsche dealer didn't cut it.

Regarding rebuild, if it was a good recognized tech, I would buy it. Just get the files on what was done, and have a shop YOU PICK, do the PPI.

I have come to realize, there are unfortunately a lot more crooks and liars out there than I ever imagined, so do your homework.

However a lot of good people reside on these forums, willing to help.


Good luck

I will repeat a quote from someone who has made a living off the air-cooled Porsche models for 40 years. "930 Turbos either just had or now need a rebuild."
If they are low miles, the major seals and studs need replacing. If they were driven and rebuilt with typical HP upgrades they now need rebuild.
I use to own aircraft. 930 turbos are similar, the cost of ownership varies widely based on the engine's status.

so far I have driven my 930 approx 89,000 miles with only reg maint, and replacing the throw out bearing, Alternator, CD Unit, and all rear CV Boots. Bought with 34K now has 123K. The clutch is just now starting to slip so that will be coming up in the next couple of months.

oh.. about 200-300 miles into the drive from Charlotte North Carolina where I bought it to home in south florida.
From what I remember that was about a 675 mile trip.
I made it home and it ran good but it had a clogged oil hole next to the #5 rocker arm in the right side cam spray bar.

It wasn't too bad $ wise to fix it though because I did all that myself.
I took the 964 grind web cams out and sent them to Web Cam and had them repair and regrind the lobes and I bought almost new rocker arms and shafts, cam chains and sprockets, idler soprockets and shafts for a real good price, and replaced the parts and timed the cams in my driveway with the engine in the car lowered down about 7 inches on to a jackstand.
With the bumper off I could sit on the ground behind it or lay on my side on the ground and work on it.

It had alot of the usual upgrades for around 350 HP and the transaxle had been rebuilt when I got it.

Thanks for the stories guys. The question was a little bit of a bait. I have owned my 930 for about 6 years. I had a complete rebuild done to original specs by a 30 year Porsche Technician 2 years and 1000 miles ago. I now have it for sale. A potential buyer said that he is afraid of my car because it has had a rebuild and hit me with an offer $14k under my asking price. I say my car is if anything worth more because of the rebuild.
Obligatory picture is attached. This was taken in the rain with and Ipad, but thought I would share it.

Thanks Rob

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1361487887.jpg

From the H5 headlights your car looks like an '87 through '89 model and looks in very nice condiditon.
Are you saying you were offered only $14,000 for it or 14 less than you're asking?
I'm not looking for another but just curious, what are you asking for it?

JFairman, it is an 87, he offered me 14k less than I was asking for it. My list price is $39,500.
completely original, no performance mods, 59k miles.
It is in the cars for sale section.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/734760-f-s-1987-porsche-930-911-turbo.html

I would say ignore him, he's dreaming...
Looks like you just listed it so give it time. I've heard you get more selling to someone in europe because they cost alot more there.

Good luck with selling it.

Bought mine with just shy of 100,000 miles, paid too much in retrospect except the rest of the car was picture perfect. Not enough documentation to tell if the motor had ever been opened. I've put - I don't know - probably over 15,000 on it since. Took the motor out on year 2, because all the mods I did caused the clutch to start slipping - so I stuffed in a KEP stage 1 and haven't looked back. While in there, did the normal assorted seals and such that were easy to get to and replace...just because. It wasn't leaking oil then, and it isn't now.

It did not have the stock rubber centered clutch disc, but rather a spring centered Sachs, so at some time someone had done that replacement. So without enough documentation, I can't say that the motor itself may have had some "refreshing" in the past.

All I know is that it's performing flawlessly at the moment with nothing pointing toward imminent rebuild. I guess I'm forced to continue running it until then...or maybe I should just park it.

That guy needs to put his feet back on the ground.

I assume your tech was Franz. The prospective buyer should just stop by the shop, and see for himself.

I would just smile and move on.

My advice, drive it, don't sell it :)

lucky
 

I bought mine on eBay with no PPI and little knowledge of 930s or aircooled 911s. Not expensive but was in a fender bender probably 10 to 15 years ago. Had dealer parts documentation for the fix.car was stock except for 134 a upgrade B&B headers and rims.

I put 30,000 miles on it in the last 2 and a half years. No snow or salt but everything else. Basically my daily driver.the only things that failed an absolutely had to be done were windshield alternator and speedometer. I upgraded to MSD bigger IC ,Magnecore, tial 1 bar waste gate when I did the alternator.

currently sold some toys so upgrading a few things. Turbo ,suspension, fix some leaks ,valve adjustment, clutch. Although existing stock clutch is okay just wanted an upgrade for future more horsepower.

100k miles. engine burns 1 quart every 1500 to 1700 miles. Never left me stranded.

previous poster saying 930 just had a rebuild or needs a rebuild is false in my case.

understood that I was lucky. But it's possible to find a good driver that hasnt been screwed with and spend reasonable maintenance and minor repair and enjoy.

Purchased November 2007...engine rebuild commenced August 2009, car returned to service April 2010. In all likelihood, the engine needed rebuilding when I bought it...still ran great and was pretty fast (so I thought), had a PPi that was bull$hit but that's a whole 'nuther story. Between engine rebuild, upgrades and repairs to suspension, seats, wheels, exhaust, turbo, intercooler, brakes, wheel bearings, transmission, etc, I have easily spent twice over the initial cost of entry. No regrets, only lighter wallet...great car that I love.

I wasn't too smart a buyer. I bought the color...

My car had full service history 28 stamps in the book with receipts to back it up. 81k miles. Had a PPI completed which came up with trivia. previous owner did 3k miles in 6 years. Mainly a garage queen. I had a 300 mile drive home, by the time i had done that the oil leaks had shown up, after 6 months i thought i would get them fixed. head studs were snapped and valve guides worn.
The car is a great bit of history and a thing of beauty but wish i never sold my 993 C2 for it.

To put things in perspective from my experience. In the last 20+ years I have bought aver 40 930's and driven them way over 100K total miles before reselling some of them, and have only experienced 3 interior motor problems. Two were low mileage ones 10K and 18K miles with broken head studs and one with a seized valve guide @ 55K miles after using it for 4k miles.

Bought mine with 200,000 km (125,000 miles) on it in the spring of 2001. Two owner car brokered by my mechanic (factory trained Porsche tech 40+ years experience, now independent) who worked on the car from new and did a top end overhaul as part of the deal. My only concern at the time was that even with a fresh valve job etc. at some point I figured it would require a full rebuild.

12 years and 65,000 km (almost 40,000 miles) later, I figure it will eventually need a rebuild, but I still have no idea when. It burns little oil (maybe a litre in 3,000 km), doesn't smoke, has good oil pressure, makes great power, and otherwise seems in great health.

So in the back of my mind I know it is inevitable that it will require a rebuild, but at this point it could be another 5, 10, 15 years - who knows? When the time comes I will happily do it in the knowledge that the motor will then be capable of outlasting me.

There's lots of stories of Carreras and SCs going incredible distances without major surgery so I don't see why regular driven 930s wouldn't do the same (major mods or major track time is a different matter).

$39,500 for your car seems like a great deal to me, I wouldn't sell mine for that, let alone anything less. So wait for a buyer who knows and understands what he's getting into and he (or she) will see the value.

Great point, most well taken care of and well serviced 930's will easily outlast most owners even if sportively driven many miles, just get a good one, who cares if it has 20K or 75K miles. If you drive it regularly the miles you bought it with are a moot point. Why pay a fortune for a low miles car that can have some problems( most of my past problem 930s were low mileage ones ) if not more problems than a well taken care of 930 upgraded to cure the original factory 930 problems?

Yes, plus every time you drive a low mileage car, you feel like you are devaluing one of its strongest selling points. I had 4 low mileage Porsches and I was uncomfortable driving them. However, my 930 has 90k miles, but 3k on a fresh rebuild. I have no qualms about putting miles on this one.

There is a fellow locally who has an early 80s 911 with 300k miles on the original engine and the cases have never been split. With judicious street driving you should get many years and miles out of any Porsche; tracking it, though, is another story altogether. My 356 160HP racer was rebuilt every 20 hours.

Bought mine as a mint original with 72k miles. I went in for a few oil leaks and its ended per my sig.

I miss read this as well and thought the price offered was $14k. I'm just starting to look into purchasing one and live in Atlanta. My wife thought I was having a seizure or something the way I was scrambling around to contact Rob.

Someone else mentioned a tech named Franz, where is he located? Contact info? I would love to know that a good reliable source for service is available local before buying.

Thanks for the help!

Thanks for all of the responses guys. Sorry about the wording that makes it sound like the list price was $14k. (I would buy it off of myself at that price. :) ) I would be in for not much more than the engine rebuild cost me. I am selling because I am looking to go in a different direction as far as big boy toys go, so I am not desperate to get just any price to get rid of it. I posted this because I needed to see if I was off base by not discounting the price because of the engine rebuild. It seems as though most of you are with me in thinking that these cars are not devalued if the rebuild is done right by someone that knows what they are doing.

Thanks again Rob

Rebuilding the motor correctly even if it's only a top end rebuild only increases the value of them.

One short little reason: The exhaust valves in the 911 turbo motor are worn out by the time they reach 40,000 miles because of the intense cyclinder head and exhaust port heat in these turbo motors.
That is a fact and just ask Bob at Xtreme Cylinderheads index if you don't want to believe it.

To replace them you should do more than just a remove and replace, you should do a top end rebuild or overhaul.

I have bookmarked him from previous research for my own eventual needs.
However, my car has 99k and good compression test results. Uses a little oil but so what. I think saying that the exhaust valves were worn out 20 years and 50k milea ago is probably too strong a statement.
To the OP, I have my car for 11 years and haven't rebuilt it. I'm sure it would benefit from one now, but it would be elective and for peace of mind.

My email is open almost all day, and I just want to say i'm not lurking all the time... I have email notifications from this site so I'll reply to you.

These cars will continue to run pretty darn good with worn exhaust valve guides. It is surprising maybe but they do, especially on boost when the boost pressure compensates for alot of cylinder, piston ring, valve guide, and seat wear and masks it hiding it.

It's really easy to check for valve guide wear... Next time you have the rocker covers off take a sturdy screwdriver and gently use it as a prybar between a solid area of the cam tower and the valve spring retainer.
After around 40,000 miles of use on the engine and valve guides you will easily be able to nudge or wiggle the top valve spring retainer back and forth sideways. When they are new and fit correctly you can't move them sideways at all and after a while you can because metal has worn away inside the valve guide.

Now the degree of wear over mileage directly relates to how hard the motor has been driven under boost and how often high rpms have been run and the oil used.

If the car is driven slow around town most of the time with little boost they will last alot longer but thats not the usual case with these cars...
The exhaust valve guides wear out 4 to 6 times faster than the intake valve guides because of the extreme difference in high temperature heat on them.
I've never seen any other car wear out the exhaust valvguides as fast as these things do.

Anyway, take it for what it's worth. Call him and ask him if you want. He's a really cool guy. 40,000 miles were his words in a recent in person conversation I had with him when I was up at his shop having work done on some 1976 930 heads for a 95mm bore 3.0 liter motor I have so they can be installed in a 97mm bore 3.3 liter motor.

In my opinion and limited experience on these cars, if the car is tracked a few times a year at DE events or whatever the exhaust valve guides are worn out after around 25,000 miles. They still work and the motor runs pretty good but there is sideways play in the exhaust valves and if you look up in the exhaust ports with a light when the headers are off you will see alot of crusty burnt oil build up around the valve guides and valve stems in the ports because oil is leaking down there from the excessive clearance between valve stem and valve guide. That is often part of the reason for a puff of smoke on start up after it sits a while.
I've mentioned that to some excellent local Porsche mechanics around here and they agreed. So, it all comes down to how hard the car is driven...

I'm not an expert at all but Bill at xtreme cylinder heads is and many many people consider him the absolute best at porsche cylinder head work and modifications in the USA, period. Truth is no one else even comes close...
He also builds some killer custom 911 heads from the ground up with new castings he designed. You can see them and his amazing CNC porting on his website I posted a link to in my earlier post. Or just google xtreme cylinder heads.