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Unhappy Hmmm... the car died backing out of the garage...

I was going to take it for it's first spin around the block this year, but didn't make it too far.

Basically I have no spark.... this is a ROW 82 model.

In the left side engine bay, there are three fuses where the harness comes together into an aluminum module. The top fuse was blown. I replaced it but still don't have any spark to the plugs. Then I found the red with gray stripe wire that feeds the MSD no longer has 12V on it.

All the fuses up front are fine.

What all does that engine bay harness service other than the ignition?
Thanks for any ideas.

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82 Porsche 930 Euro, black, 31K miles.
Factory stock other than k27 turbo, B&B headers, GHL exhaust, Tial F40, 1 bar wastegate, MSD 6A ignition, 8" and 9" Fuch upgrade, H4 Xenon headlamps and a 930S steering wheel.
Old 04-07-2013, 04:02 PM
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maby check all the grounds.

Link to info on engine harness: Engine wiring Harness

Basically a bump
Old 04-08-2013, 11:24 AM
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Do 930s have the flywheel sensor connector (like the 964 Turbos) that crumbles and causes a no spark no start? That happened to me. Driving along (much farther away than my driveway) and then nothing. Located on driver side close to the air pump.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo ride View Post
Do 930s have the flywheel sensor connector (like the 964 Turbos) that crumbles and causes a no spark no start? That happened to me. Driving along (much farther away than my driveway) and then nothing. Located on driver side close to the air pump.
Nope.
Old 04-08-2013, 01:34 PM
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Like Brandon said, check the connector on the flywheel sensor. Engine heat kills them and your car won't run without that signal.
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Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 04-08-2013, 03:37 PM
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Uhhhh......boys.....WHAT flywheel sensor? I don't believe any such thing exists on a 930. A 911 maybe. Sure aint one on my rig.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oheggem View Post
maby check all the grounds.

Link to info on engine harness: Engine wiring Harness

Basically a bump
Ohhh ! This is good!

Thanks a bunch, I think that will be major help.

I'm wondering too if my fuel pumps are running or not, I don't really hear anything when I turn the key on. Whatever took that fuse out may have toasted power elsewhere. I wonder if there are any fusable links in that harness ... well anyway, this schematic is golden! Thanks again, I'll try and wrench on this later in the week and report.
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82 Porsche 930 Euro, black, 31K miles.
Factory stock other than k27 turbo, B&B headers, GHL exhaust, Tial F40, 1 bar wastegate, MSD 6A ignition, 8" and 9" Fuch upgrade, H4 Xenon headlamps and a 930S steering wheel.
Old 04-08-2013, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Maxx1 View Post
Ohhh ! This is good!

Thanks a bunch, I think that will be major help.

I'm wondering too if my fuel pumps are running or not, I don't really hear anything when I turn the key on. Whatever took that fuse out may have toasted power elsewhere. I wonder if there are any fusable links in that harness ... well anyway, this schematic is golden! Thanks again, I'll try and wrench on this later in the week and report.
Maxx, unless someone did a re-wire job, if still stock your pumps won't run unless and until you crank the engine over enough to draw air and deflect the fuel distributor metering arm, which then trips a micro switch and relays to send power to the pumps. A safety feature to prevent the pumps from running if the engine were to die....like after an accident...puking fuel all over hot surfaces and doing the unthinkable.

Those 3 fuses in the engine compartment have nothing to do with the pumps. There is a single fuse up in the luggage compartment that protects both pumps through two separate relays. Check there if in doubt. Your MSD should by all rights have it's own in-line fuse, but perhaps maybe not. It sounds most likely that you don't have any spark. Simple to rule out the pumps, though. Turn on the ignition key and depress the spring loaded mixture adjustment post on the top of the fuel head enough to depress the metering arm, thus mimicking air being drawn down across it. Or, reach to the left behind the fuel head and find the blue colored wiring plug and unplug it. Your pumps will then run without the engine running.

Oh...and one more thing...spend the time to review all the posts in the sticky "my car won't start". That's what it's there for, to point you where to start looking. Meanwhile, we'll collectively give you enough direction to make your head spin :-)
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Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.

Last edited by mark houghton; 04-08-2013 at 06:49 PM..
Old 04-08-2013, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark houghton View Post
Oh...and one more thing...spend the time to review all the posts in the sticky "my car won't start". That's what it's there for, to point you where to start looking. Meanwhile, we'll collectively give you enough direction to make your head spin :-)
Thanks Mark, I saw it and will check it out further. The tricky thing is, this being a non EPA / euro version, there are probaby quite a few wiring differences over the 86 and newer cars. I'm using the 78-79 version schematics as the closest examples, so I hope I'm not too far off.

Thanks for the fuel pump advice, I appreciate that additional info. I pulled the plugs and they are slightly damp looking, but not wet .... so I'm assuming it's still getting fuel ok. I'll do that test as you recommended just to be sure.

The MSD fuse is ok. The harness looks original so I have to find the disconnect in getting power to the MSD. I'll have time on Friday to dig in deeper. It shouldn't take too much. I'm wondering now about the health of my ignition coil... or what may have happened to blow that fuse in the first place.
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82 Porsche 930 Euro, black, 31K miles.
Factory stock other than k27 turbo, B&B headers, GHL exhaust, Tial F40, 1 bar wastegate, MSD 6A ignition, 8" and 9" Fuch upgrade, H4 Xenon headlamps and a 930S steering wheel.
Old 04-09-2013, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark houghton View Post
Uhhhh......boys.....WHAT flywheel sensor? I don't believe any such thing exists on a 930. A 911 maybe. Sure aint one on my rig.
Yup. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming......
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Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 04-09-2013, 04:56 AM
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I did some troubleshooting tonight.
Fuel pumps are fine, thanks for the tip Mark, that is good future reference material. I'm going to have to read up on the fusebox mod for those.

It seems that my MSD quit working, I have the mains and ignition powered up to 12VDC, and a good ground, but in manually shorting the magnetic trigger wires I'm not getting any spark out of the coil. The coil ohms out to 2ohms primary and 12.5K secondary.... so that seems ok. I have a spare MSD and a huge Accel monster coil in the basement I can use as spares if needed.

Oh well, I ran out of time but will probably have it going shortly (hopefully).

Thanks everyone for the schematics and ideas.
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82 Porsche 930 Euro, black, 31K miles.
Factory stock other than k27 turbo, B&B headers, GHL exhaust, Tial F40, 1 bar wastegate, MSD 6A ignition, 8" and 9" Fuch upgrade, H4 Xenon headlamps and a 930S steering wheel.

Last edited by Maxx1; 04-09-2013 at 05:44 PM..
Old 04-09-2013, 05:41 PM
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I have an MSD programmable 6AL2, and if you have this same unit perhaps the unit is set to "off".
There is an option in the programming of the unit to turn the spark off and perhaps something triggered this and you need to check this to "on" in your PC and re- download your spark program to the unit.
Just a thought, as I noticed this feature while going thru the documentation with the new box of parts.

Also, maybe your little green coax cable from the Dizzy is bad or disconnected as well.

Good luck,
Fred
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
I have an MSD programmable 6AL2, and if you have this same unit perhaps the unit is set to "off".
There is an option in the programming of the unit to turn the spark off and perhaps something triggered this and you need to check this to "on" in your PC and re- download your spark program to the unit.
Just a thought, as I noticed this feature while going thru the documentation with the new box of parts.

Also, maybe your little green coax cable from the Dizzy is bad or disconnected as well.

Good luck,
Fred
Thanks Fred nah, the one that died is just the plain jane 6A.

Here is the update: I bench tested the MSD and it did in fact die on me. I'm really glad it died backing out of the garage rather than in traffic or hundreds of miles from home.
There is a simple bench test and it won't spark at all. Luckily I bought a 6AL at a swap meet for a back up years ago and so it came in handy. The car is running again. This is the second ignition that my car has eaten. The first was the permatune that came with the car, and now this MSD. Maybe I should pack a spare under the seat with all the tools to swap it out on the highway.

Thanks everyone for the great support!

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82 Porsche 930 Euro, black, 31K miles.
Factory stock other than k27 turbo, B&B headers, GHL exhaust, Tial F40, 1 bar wastegate, MSD 6A ignition, 8" and 9" Fuch upgrade, H4 Xenon headlamps and a 930S steering wheel.
Old 04-17-2013, 11:10 AM
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