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77 930/3.0 build

Guys,

I my search for a wide body for an IROC 3.2 Short Stroke build I came across a 77 3.0 930, which I jumped on. I had a 78 turbo and a 91 turbo years ago which had the usual bolt on's, but I know things have changed. Since then I went over to the NA side and love the short stroke 8K screamers.

I have been told that to turn this 77 into an IROC would be a shame... even though the case is awesome due to being able to take the 66mm/6 bolt crank for a true short stroke motor. I intend to go with a stock look but build the motor and mod the suspension.

The 77 930 is in need of a complete rebuild so I have a clean slate. I want to go with CIS, but max it out. I have a GT3 oil pump, shambone made crank (70.4), Pauter rods and some other goodies I have been stashing for the 3.2SS build which can be used for this 77.

My questions: What cams, turbo, compression, headwork is needed. I have Extreme right up the road and they can handle whatever is needed for the heads.

I would like to carry boost as high in the RPM range as possible. I will be re-gearing the tranny once we see what the dyno looks like.

Thanks for the help.

Jimmy
Old 05-14-2013, 07:10 PM
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Brando
 
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Cool, I'll be watching this.
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Turbo powa!
1977 911s. it's cool
Old 05-14-2013, 07:41 PM
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Find yourself a Carrera to do that, dont waste such a rare beast!
Old 05-15-2013, 03:19 AM
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Well, I have received a number of PMs saying I should return the car to stock or reversible changes. I also received an email from one of the better known shops saying my expectations/goals are not feasible.

So, what would it take to turn this tired/smoking stock 3.0 into a motor that would hold boost to a 6K redline even with giving up low end?

What cams, what compression, fuel requirements/mods for CIS, what turbo, exhaust, etc?

I will keep it stock looking but will build the motor and suspension.

Thanks guys,

Jimmy
Old 05-15-2013, 08:37 AM
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Brando
 
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What are your goals? I can't read any. I'm confused about what you mean? Other than maxing out the cis I don't see any figures that might seem unfeasable.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:31 AM
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quattrorunner


My Goals are to get this 3.0 turbo as close to 400 RWHP as possible using the CIS and staying on boost to a 6K rpm redline. I do not care if I give up some low end.

I would like to build it as a 3.2 Liter on a 70.4 crank (because I have a sweet one), otherwise I am open to any suggestions.

I would if possible like to know what combination of parts/work would be required to achieve the above ?

I know Porsche NA motors and currently have a 8200 RPM screamer. I unfortunately do not know Turbo motors all that well and need to educate myself so I can get this 3.0 Turbo built.

thanks,

Jimmy
Old 05-15-2013, 03:44 PM
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Brando
 
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In my opinion 400 hp is very doable with cis. Your engine has very low compression which most guys don't like because of the additional lag before boost but with modern turbos that lag is reduced to full boost by 3000rpm with 6.5/1 compression. And if you turn up the boost, you get power. You can run 1.2 bar boost easily with that low compression and intercooling. With better cams X33(sc grind) or 964 grind which might be more suitable for your higher rpm desires and better exhaust headers with free flowing muffler your there. 1.2 bar boost with a modern turbo and good intercooler and the aforementioned upgrades would make you the 400hp just like that. Nothing else needed, maybe even more power depending on the parts used.
I'm making over 300 hp with my setup. Probably more like 325hp with .8 bar boost and good intercooler as well as headers and modern turbo and sc cams.
These parts arent cheep, but the goal is indeed doable easily as long as your ready for the costs.
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Old 05-15-2013, 05:09 PM
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Jimmy why would you do all of that and not go EFI?
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Old 05-15-2013, 05:53 PM
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For one its more easily reversible. This is a hot topic right now concerning a car that seems to be increasing quickly for those relatively unmolested examples. Also, efi is another level of expensive.
Intercooler $1000
Headers $400-$4000 choice
Cams $400
Turbo $700-$1500
Then efi is somewhere from $3000 to $12k
Why go efi if all you want Is 400hp?

Last edited by quattrorunner; 05-15-2013 at 06:45 PM..
Old 05-15-2013, 06:05 PM
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My EFI set up with Haltech sprint 500 and second hand 3.2 manifold owes me well under 3K. After paying for the tune and doing all the other work myself I'll be at around $2600. The Sprint 500 apart from looking after the fuel map it will also control the fuel and oil pump along with being the boost controler.
I've gone with EFI not because of the amount of power I am looking for but the same reasone Porsche did it. Better engine control.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:20 PM
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If cis were better we'd still see it on cars today. Clearly it's better in every way. It's also rare to do a good efi for less than $3k. Occasionally some find parts that allow for less but it's not easy.
But in the case of a 77 3.0 turbo there is a line that some would say is crossed. If you had my car I'd say go efi, it's a Frankenstein already. But I couldn't do it on a correct car. Intercooler, headers and such are Bolt on.
Someday I'll do efi but first I have other projects like ac and g50.
Old 05-15-2013, 07:58 PM
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I have been told that to turn this 77 into an IROC would be a shame.



My questions: What cams, turbo, compression, headwork is needed. I have Extreme right up the road and they can handle whatever is needed for the heads.

I would like to carry boost as high in the RPM range as possible. I will be re-gearing the tranny

Thanks for the help.

Jimmy[/QUOTE]

Back in the day these early cars were less valuable than the later ones so no line was crossed then. I have a 77 that was done when almost new. So to your your questions based upon what i know about it. Still uses Andial modded CIS. Turbo is a K29, cylinders are 98MM, heads are two plugs, cams are now 993 race cams ( i might have the part# ) as Andial recently rebuilt it but changed the cams this time, compression is stock so boost is @ 1.2 bar, and pulls very strong to over 7000 from around 3500 RPM. Timing can be increased up to 32 BTDC with 112 octane, however I keep it @ 29. Trans is a RUF 5 spd with 9:36 diff so the first 4 would be similar to a 4 spd with a 8:41 diff. I have a stock 77 also so I would never put it back to that configuration. This car is as close to a original street version 934 I ever had the chance to get.
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Last edited by voitureltd; 05-16-2013 at 06:15 PM..
Old 05-16-2013, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voitureltd View Post

That is a purple people eater. I'd love that car. Out of curiosity what power does it make with 29 degree ignition and pump gas?
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattrorunner View Post
That is a purple people eater. I'd love that car. Out of curiosity what power does it make with 29 degree ignition and pump gas?
Thanks, the color is aubergine, Porsche color #025 . At 29 BTDC I still mix about 1/2 112 leaded with 93 pump gas. On the engine dyno @ Andial after the last rebuild , they said it was over 400. I have driven other modded 930 cars that we have had on the dyno with well over 400 HP and I believe what Andial told me.
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Last edited by voitureltd; 05-16-2013 at 08:29 AM..
Old 05-16-2013, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattrorunner View Post
. I'd love that car.
Thanks, for further details on it view my website Voiture Ltd. however it is also one of my favorites, so after having it for over a decade I still want it. Keep it on your want list as I would sooner it would stay with a fellow Pelican, some day.
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Last edited by voitureltd; 05-16-2013 at 02:13 PM..
Old 05-16-2013, 08:37 AM
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Well, the motor is out and gets cracked open tomorrow. The main components are a Chambone 70.4 crank which is six lbs lighter than the stock crank, KKK K-27/29, 993 Super Sport Cams, headers, Pauter rods, LN jugs(98mm)/JE pistons 7:5:1 and will run 1.0 bar,GT-3 oil pump, and assorted other parts on order. The heads are going to Extreme in a few days and I have Turbocraft injector blocks and intercooler on the way. Fuelhead and WUR are off for mods. Brakes are going to PMB for rebuild and refinish

A full on suspension is on the way from Tarrett and Elaphant and the tranny is getting re-geared. 15x11 and 15x9 Braid/Fuch wheels are on order. The car is pretty lite weight with no sunroof, AC, and one side mirror

All the original parts that come off are boxed up and going in storage.

This thing should scoot. My intention is to keep it stock looking but with a proper suspension and built motor.

Will update with pics as things get going....

Thanks,

Jimmy
Old 07-24-2013, 06:17 PM
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Forgot to mention, will be twin plugged.......

Question for you turbo guys...... Running 1.0 Bar and 7:5:1 compression is about right? It also gets hot here during the summer/South FL and want a little margin for saftey.

I can add four/five gallons of 112 per fill up no problem.

I was thinking of going 8:1 with 1.0 Bar, but researching, that would be about the limit from what I am reading.

Thanks
Old 07-24-2013, 06:39 PM
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7.5:1 at 1 bar is fine, with your build you'll be over 400 at the wheels. my 77 was a 3.2 shortstroke with 38mm ported heads, sc330 cams, and made 396 at the wheels on .8 bar, and I ran out of fuel at 6k. Your limiting factor is CIS.
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:45 PM
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Thanks for the reply, helpfull. And 396 RWHP is damn good.

I am doing 38mm injector blocks, intake ports will be 38 and exhaust acording to Extreme will be 41mm.

Thanks again,

Jimmy
Old 07-24-2013, 07:56 PM
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Wow. Subscribing for future updates. My favorite look on a 911 is a stock bodied car with a purposeful wheel/suspension combination. Having the power to back it up is a bonus.
Old 07-25-2013, 05:39 AM
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