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Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
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High-flowing, moderately quite muffler?

Got disqualified at Harris Hill in San Marcos, TX this Saturday (with "H20 LOL", "jpnovak", and "sundevil64") for being too loud.

I have a custom made 3.5" inlet to 4" outlet straight-through (packed), 12" long oval muffler. It has a nice litrebike sound to it that I've always loved and it takes on a different tone under boost.

So what are some options out there that 1) sound good, 2) flows exceptionally well, and 3) muffles decently? Lightweight would be a bonus but I would hate any future cracking.

TIA

Old 05-19-2013, 06:54 PM
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Rarlyl8 motorsports can sort you out, he will chime in here soon I expect.
Old 05-19-2013, 09:45 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Quote:
1) sound good, 2) flows exceptionally well, and 3) muffles decently? Lightweight would be a bonus but I would hate any future cracking.
Couldn't have described our mufflers better. Straight through 3", several tailpipe and sound configurations, adjustable, weighs 12 pounds and made of 321 stainless which will not crack under normal street/track use.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:08 AM
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Tippy,

I have a Hooligan, that would be too loud for this track. FYI. Brian's exhaust are extremely light too. I have a couple of them. Which brings me to the next question.

Brian, Can you make one of my hooligan's quieter? What would be the cost for do this?

John
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84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo[/COLOR], 78 930 RoW no option sunroof coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 71 911T, 73 911E, 67 Bronco survivor. 71 FJ40, 2001 Boxster
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Last edited by sundevil64; 05-20-2013 at 04:01 AM..
Old 05-20-2013, 03:38 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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My friend "H2O LOL" has Brian's muffler and I was impressed with how light it is but its a little more than I'd like to spend.

I was thinking of dumping muffler straight down and then leaving tip in place for looks. Not sure if it'd pass sound check though.
Old 05-20-2013, 07:13 AM
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Yes, H2R is like a lot of tracks and now has a 100dB limit. This is challenging from a performance exhaust standpoint. They test on the track and then will screen in the paddock. Their test is 30 ft, steady throttle at 3K rpm followed by two successive WOT cracks. It is usually the pressure wave from a WOT - snap closed throttle crack that causes a failure.

H2O-LOL was right at the limit with his. I did not realize he had the RarelyL8 muffler on the 965. They let him run.

Tippy your car was 104dB IIRC.

Sundevil was way over but also had a huge gaping hole in the manifold.
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
My friend "H2O LOL" has Brian's muffler and I was impressed with how light it is but its a little more than I'd like to spend.

I was thinking of dumping muffler straight down and then leaving tip in place for looks. Not sure if it'd pass sound check though.
Which muffler does he have? I ask, because that must be one conservative racetrack if Brian's "street" muffler is too loud to use there . . .
Old 05-20-2013, 07:22 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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His car sounded louder than mine but his dumps to the ground. That maybe the trick.
Old 05-20-2013, 07:34 AM
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This is cheep if you can weld or have a friend that can weld. Magnaflow very simple.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:17 AM
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Which Magnaflow is that? I hope there is some support on that muffler.

Yes, JPNovak is correct I was at 113db! Yes, there is a gaping whole in my headers (see my post about the ghl's that gave out).

Hey Tippy,
I may sell my B&B that came with the 930 originally. It is quieter than my borla. Email if you are interested.

John
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84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo[/COLOR], 78 930 RoW no option sunroof coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 71 911T, 73 911E, 67 Bronco survivor. 71 FJ40, 2001 Boxster
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:25 AM
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The Magnaflow 11229 is a good one.
Amazon.com: Magnaflow 11229 Satin Stainless Steel 3" Oval Muffler: Automotive

I've heard this muffler and it sounds nice. Not at all loud either.
Alot of places like Summit and Jegs have it too.
Old 05-20-2013, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundevil64 View Post
Which Magnaflow is that? I hope there is some support on that muffler.

Of course there's a support!

That's a shorty canister for that RS-styled car. Even with the twin 3" pipes out the back, it wasn't that noisy, just fine in the cockpit.

There are larger 3"/3" all-stainless muffler canisters, and all a rather quiet. Pick the largest oval that will fit in your space:
MagnaFlow Exhaust Products - For Trucks, Suv's, American Muscle, Diesel, & Sport Compact Vehicles
We use frequently them for our in-house builds and they pass db on track. No resonance, still lets the engine make all the good classic 911 engine sounds -- tenor exhaust note, mechanical valve train, whistle and whir of the turbocharger, etc.

However:
If your sound measurement is like at one of our local tracks, it's at WOT -- so the wastegate is wide open, too, and that's very loud. Choices are to:
- plumb the wastegate's exhaust back into the muffler
or
- try to do some mini muffler off the wastegate without introducing boost creep.
The factory 1986-89 930 wastegate outlet pipe can cause boost creep, especially on engines with aftermarket headers where the WG path off the collector is not optimal.
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:43 AM
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Hi Chris, when you said "The factory 1986-89 930 wastegate outlet pipe can cause boost creep, especially on engines with aftermarket headers where the WG path off the collector is not optimal."
Do you mean the seperate little factory wastegate muffler made by Bischoff?

My '87 turbo has one of those and I'm not sure if it was origonal or a previous owner put it on there when they put on the B&B headers.

My car has 964 cams and B&B headers and single out left side muffler.
Ever since I gutted all the baffles out of that muffler and hogged out where it necks down to 2.5" inside of it to 3" to lower it's backpressure I've had some boost creep at high rpms.
It didn't get much louder and sounds very nice without all the baffles. I left the approximately 1" of stainless steel packing around the inside diameter intact.

I've thought of doing something to that wastegate muffler to reduce it's backpressure and see if I had less boost creep but havn't tried it yet.

thanks for any info on this.
Old 05-20-2013, 11:02 AM
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wastegate muffler pipe

Yes, that muffler tip for the 1986-89 Turbos. It's a piece of junk on a non-stock engine because it is so restrictive. We have seen it cause between 2-5psi (!) of boost creep on modified 930 engines.



Internally, it is a moderately perforated tube with approx. 68x 5mm holes, and the end of the tube folded/pinched in a square pattern, leaving the WG exhaust to flow through the holes plus a 3x3mm center opening.






Our local track is 94db or 96db. Routing the WG outlet back into the muffler inlet isn't difficult and, when the engine has a big 3" straight-through muffler, allows the car to pass.
Ex: exhaust on beyond-GT2-spec 3.8TT




FWIW: testing a 3" dump pipe vs. one of those big 3" mufflers, we measured a 2whp difference -- within the normal variance of back-to-back dyno pulls on a Turbo. Hardly any loss.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:43 PM
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The fabspeed single out configuration is pretty quiet in comparison.
Old 05-20-2013, 06:09 PM
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I was inspired to build my magnaflo system today and found it just as Chris said. Quiet but nice tone, a deep throaty tone that s subdued but quite porsche-ie. my crappy obx muffler sounds really cool but can be a little loud at times. I still like that sound too but really love the magnaflow. I saw boost threshold at just under 2k rpm. That is when it starts to see boost right?
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:23 PM
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I use a Magnaflow, 3" oval straight through passing noise levels at Calabogie and Tremblant both of which are below 100 db. But these tracks don't require a WOT blip in the paddock, just a rev and I rev with caution. My paddock noise readings are in the high 80's.

and Brian your WG mufflers are doing the job, thanks!

Dave

Old 05-21-2013, 04:04 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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I think if I replace I'll go Magnaflow. As long as I can remember, magazine tests always showed Magnaflow making the most power.
Old 05-23-2013, 07:20 PM
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... only if it is a straight through design. Turbos don't like baffles.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Yes, that muffler tip for the 1986-89 Turbos. It's a piece of junk on a non-stock engine because it is so restrictive. We have seen it cause between 2-5psi (!) of boost creep on modified 930 engines.
So you are saying an earlier WG muffler is not restrictive then?

Because I do not see any boost creep on my '81 EFI engine with stock (Euro) WG muffler...

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Old 05-24-2013, 03:59 AM
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