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Boost is too much too soon

Hello all lovers of Pork

Well i managed to put in a Monty muffler i picked up didn't quite fit so i had to cut the fibreglass to allow for the extra width but its good now. (and i put that big heavy thing back in too !! )

But i noticed two things firstly there is what seems to be water coming from the turbo seal which stops after a few minutes, it drips onto the floor , condensation from something? it does this each time so far ive started it, (3 times) and lasts for about a minute or so ..should i be worried?

And when i installed the Monty it didnt allow for the pipe from the wastegate to go into it so i cut it off as was advised and it all seems to work well but on driving ive noticed the boost to start around 3400/3500rpm, previously 4000rpm, and it shoots to 1.5bar quite quickly (5500rpm) if im not careful, it never did this before, im assuming it is the more free flowing exhaust. i rarely drive over 4000 rpm as i hardly need to with the speed the car does but with the same driving habits the car is hitting 5500 (no need to state the obvious) -

There is a boost controller in the dash and i cant figure out which way to decrease the boost is anyone familiar with this item? on the red ring washer it just says -push to lock,- i think it might be missing a bit, ill work out how to turn it but anyone know this type? clockwise for decreasing boost??

Also ive attached pics please note the pipe length from wastegate is the length ok? the guy said something about cutting it on an angle but was vague,

I Welcome your input

Getting there
Rob



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Old 06-12-2013, 06:07 PM
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It is hard to tell from the picture, but it appears that the knob for the boost controller/air pressure regulator is missing and maybe a rubber, or plastic, plug is inserted in the hole that the red ring is around? Also it looks like the hose for the regulator is no longer attached to the wastegate (I'm referring to the hose zip-tied to the rear fender support that is not attached to anything?) . . .
Old 06-12-2013, 09:03 PM
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Thanks ill check that out now
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:03 PM
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The hose, shouldnt affect my recent probs as its always been like that,..i just took it for a drive, and the turbo seems irregular when it spools up, ie: at 4500rpm it will hit 1.5 bar, but the acceleration is not there, i was feeling more grunt on the old stock exhaust at .6 bar.. ill check for leaks is all i can think of
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:11 PM
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If you're truly getting 1.5 bar then it would say your wastegate isn't opening. That's a LOT of boost, something to be concerned about. Are you running a 930 engine, or is this a converted 3.0 911? I noticed the 5 speed shifter.

Take the boost controller in the dash out of the equation for a test. Unhook both hoses to the WG, and connect just one hose from a pressure source (from the intercooler usually) to the bottom port on the WG, and let the top port vent to atmosphere.
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:41 AM
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Mark, do the boost controllers eliminate the cutout switch? He'd run into that even if waste gate circuit is disabled somehow.
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:52 AM
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Turning the knob on any air pressure regulator clockwise no matter what it is being used for increases ternsion on the internal spring.
You are increasing boost by turning that knob clockwise if that's what you are doing.
Turn it counter clockwise all the way till it stops and see what happens if it's even hooked up and doing anything at all.

Cheap air pressure regulators like that one usually have a plastic knob that locks in place when pushed down and unlock when pulled up about 1/8". Then it will turn.

It's installed by putting a metal Tee fitting in the boost pressure line from the intercooler end tank going to the wastegate bottom fitting.
One side of the Tee goes to the bottom wastegate fitting that opens the wastegate like before and the other side of the T goes through the air pressure regulator so that feed becomes adjustable and then on to the top fitting on the wastegate which origonally vents to atmosphere in a 930.
That way you can control the differential pressure between the top and bottom sides of the diaphram in the wastegate, and that controls when it opens and then boost level becomes adjustable.
It's very simple and the results are linear and controlable from inside the car.

Just takes some knowledge, high octane fuel, and self control to keep from overdoing it and blowing up the motor.
With stock CIS it's a bad idea because it will run lean, break ring$ from too much detonation, and melt piston$ if you push it over 1.1 bar.
Old 06-13-2013, 06:15 AM
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Just want to add this..

If the air pressure regulator/boost level control is installed like I mentioned above and the line that would normally go to the top fitting on the wastegate is vented to atmosphere instead like it looks like might be happening in your picture then turning the regulator knob clockwise would leak all the boost line pressure to atmosphere leaving none of it to go to the bottom fitting and the wategate would never open.
That real dangerous and bad for the motor and may be whats happening in yours.
Try turning the knob all the way counter clockwise.
Old 06-13-2013, 06:28 AM
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boost NEVER comes in too soon.....well maybe if your not pointed where you want to go..


i would bypass the control first to see what spring is in there and 2 to keep from killing the motor.
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 06-13-2013, 08:04 AM
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Robby...

your last couple of posts here just slay me - sorry, couldn't resist some chuckles

as noted, you're def overboosting and the overboost cutoff switch isn't intervening - I'd bypass that dial a death stat and determine what is / is not working. Your w/g may be frozen shut, and your overboost should cut fuel VIOLENTLY @ 1.2bar. Find out why it's not and verify the w/g is cracking @ .8bar.

1.5bar is a quick trip down Cracked Rings / Blown Motor Avenue... blow a U'ey there my friend!

Regarding your dump pipe, it's shooting straight @ your bumper bar... not the end of the world but not ideal. Cut an angle onto that tip there, that's what your guy was saying. It should be that the flow is directed freely toward the ground.

Report back w/ what you find, good luck!


ps. 2nd that boost can NEVER come on 'too soon'... I nearly bust a nut laughing when you said that, probably the most saught after mod on these cars is to lower boost onset from 189,245,347 RPMS to something more manageable 8-).

pps. I am SO installing a "Turbo Thingy" in my car! ROFLMAO 8-)

ppps. never shift past 4k in a 930? Time to let your FREAK FLAG FLY... try 5400, peak hp/tq... you'll never ever granny shift again
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Last edited by krasuskyp; 06-13-2013 at 10:06 AM..
Old 06-13-2013, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxrken View Post
Mark, do the boost controllers eliminate the cutout switch? He'd run into that even if waste gate circuit is disabled somehow.
Quite clear he doesn't have the overboost cutoff sensor, or it's unplugged and grounded...which is not wise.
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Old 06-13-2013, 02:47 PM
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Ok guys thx for the hints and help, here's update,

i changed the pipe coming off wastegate to point towards ground, that prob solved,..
It was my first wastegate (mod) ?

I checked the lines from the boost dial and they are not connected, so ill leave the guage there could use it to impress the unknowning.

its a 930 a 1977 its factory euro engine without intercooler.
the 5 speed is a previous downgrade!! by prev owner

i dont know about overboost sensor or how to make brownies either, i just bought this car, its been heavily modded, changed but the engine and chassis do match the turbo badge, the rest needs a lot of work and diagnosis,

im only now left with the problem of the guage zooming to 1.5 bar too easily did it again twice today the d#$@% thing..
my thinking is that if there is a Leak from where the turbo goes to engine then there will be no back pressure to hold the ponies back??

if i cant tighten some nuts up ill suss up how to fix the wastegate part/item/thing... there seems to be plenty of info here,

Im new to 930,s (normally 911) but i do know enough that the flippin engine is at the front! , errr back


boosting 3200, by 4000 its at 1.5bar power is going somewhere .......

i dont mean to brag BUT
i hold the fastest run done in a car on the sweeping right hand chester bay road in Albany WA, prev record was 205kph in an A9X Torana, im fine with stick

i beat it in a factory Euro Carrera 3.0 in the nineties , the record still stands as far as i know that car did NOT have a fl#$@#in wastedgate or Turbo,

But i may have crept over 4k on that day :-)
Anyone want to buy a turbo that just works too good? lol

Its Friday night so ill take out the wg check all hoses and get laid, will update you guys on two of them
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Old 06-14-2013, 02:13 AM
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strap on your belts, this one could go either way.
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 06-14-2013, 03:23 AM
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ok

Is this ok to be like this?.....referring to photograph
Dont know if it was like already like that it looks a bit broke now at least

since i put the monty muffler on the boost went funny, is the part related?
ideas?
the round thing
block it off? cut it off? fix it? needed?
Wtf is it?


Hose to left is metal goes into space just outside of pic
theres a rubber hose that was tied to that frame and leading into space also cant see where it goes unless it somehow went on the other bit

Would this cause a false reading? on the turbo guage on dash sounds plausible

Actually this is not a bad way to spend Friday night LMAO
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:58 AM
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this
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Old 06-14-2013, 04:00 AM
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The metal pipe connected to the top of the WG should go to atmosphere (unplugged, left open) if not connected up to the 'dial of death' boost controller as Jim described. The metal pipe connected to the bottom of the WG should be connected to a rubber hose that leads to a boost air source...in your case to the intake manifold somewhere since you don't have an intercooler. The 'round thing' you have circled in the picture is part of the air injection system to the exhaust manifold for emissions purposes...although I'm not sure that Euro's had that emissions crap on them, unless it was added when the car was brought to the states. Plug off the broken end.

If you're truly hitting 1.5 bar the car should go like a raped ape, but your description says it's not any stronger than it was at .6 bar. Perhaps your gauge is faulty and you're actually seeing less than full boost, but no logic to why that would suddenly appear with a muffler swap. Hmmm....

If you really are getting 1.5 bar then the WG is suspect (either it's connections or the WG itself is stuck closed). And if you truly are getting 1.5 bar then you have no air leaks (couldn't even hope to build that much pressure if a serious air leak were present downstream from the compressor). And if you truly are getting 1.5 bar but the power is doggy, then you need to start looking for reasons causing loss of power.

First things first....make sure the WG is working. Check the hose routing, and if all is well, then pull off the WG and bench test it by putting around 18 to 20 psi to the bottom line and watch for the valve to open (note: it will take more than .8 bar - around 13 psi - for the WG to open on the bench).
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Old 06-14-2013, 04:44 AM
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Great will check that out

My missus is going to kill me for being in the shed all night again,

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Old 06-14-2013, 09:15 AM
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Quick note re history

The car is an Australian car was imported here in 1977 with 20km on the clock
3ltr 260hp
i think it weighs 1185kg but would be lighter if previous owners (4 from what i can tell) didnt garnish it with luxury non factory options, even the brakes are from an 993 which isnt that bad i suppose,

last official service was done in 1989 with 193000 km on the clock
i bought it 2 months ago with 213000km on the clock , it has an unusual history from what ive pieced together and shes seen a lot of road you can tell she loves though, the engine runs like silk i had a 76/77 Euo carrera 3, then a 84 Euro Carrera 3.2 while performance was similar across the board this 930 engine feels the best
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:30 AM
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Boosting to the moon

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Turbo powa!
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:33 PM
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