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Smart quod bastardus
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T77911S View Post
good advice. check the leak down.

mine stays pressurized for quite a while. but it will eventually go to zero. like the next day. it still starts the same.
now that i say that. how many days should it hold pressure?

is there a check valve in the fuel line like the 911 has?
There are specs in the workshop manual but you should expect to take readings at shut down and then 10 minutes later and 20 minutes later. Pressure will be some value at each time interval.

You need to throw some pressure gages on the system to verify these numbers....but I think its good to document this for future reference so you have a baseline for your engine to go back to when you start modifying it.

My money is on lose fuel pump relays.....mine have a nasty habit of working lose from their holders over time and result in the same symptoms of no start.

Fred

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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:45 AM
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yes, i have documented SO much on this car trying to fix this miss, that was not one of them. but i did note that it does stay pressureized for a very long time, at least all day.
right now i am not even sure what my cold pressure is. i dropped it after lowering my WCP to 2.8 then back up to 3bar, so i dont know what the cold is. not too worried because i imagine i will be raising the WCP again. it starts like it has been since i started working on it.

i have been meaning to check my front pump to make sure it is working. my system pressure was 6.2 but i did not check the volume.
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:57 AM
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Mine did the same thing, turned out to be a leaking fuel injector.

The leaking injector would cause both a bleed off from the accumulator and a flooded cylinder on the offending injector.

Start normal when dead cold [thanks to the cold start injector}, ok start on short turn off intervals, but let it sit for 20-30 minuets, and she would just crank and crank and crank.

Took the injectors out, had them cleaned, now good to go for over 3 years now.

Mark
Old 06-18-2013, 11:10 AM
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update: Car started perfectly this morning. After work this evening started perfectly also. Went for 45 minute drive and parked back in the garage. Turned off. Started up perfect. Waited 1.5hrs and nothing but crank crank crank. No fire. Tried pumping the plunger as mentioned above and still no luck either. I hope there is a "walk home" workaround until this is root caused, otherwise, it's completely useless for anything but garage-to-garage drives...

Well see how things go tomorrow morning. I suspect it will fire right up, first thing.
Old 06-18-2013, 04:56 PM
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permatune

I had a heat sink problem with my permatune CD, would not start hot. Let it cool down and it worked perfect. Philip
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott77 View Post
Tried pumping the plunger as mentioned above and still no luck either.
Did you do this correctly? What 9dreizig suggested is not "pumping". Turn the key on, and push the metering plate down (via the adjustment screw) until you hear the pumps turn on, and hold it for no more than a second. That will flow fuel through the injectors and into the intake, creating a rich cold start condition.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:53 PM
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Car started perfectly this morning.

So in summary:

Cold start: Ok
Hot start: ok
Warm start: not ok

Yes, I pushed down on the plunger until I heard to pumps turn on. Did not make a difference. Maybe I didn't do it right.

Could I cool down something with compressed gas, the stuff used to clean computers? The high pressure air is very cold. Force the engine into a "cold start" state?

I'd sure like a way to force it to start, worst case.

Scott
Old 06-19-2013, 03:14 AM
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when it does not start. check to see if you have spark. its quick and easy.

coil is a good for doing this, along with CD unit.
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 06-19-2013, 03:26 AM
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next time it just cranks and cranks, try kicking the beejeezus out of the throttle in quick succession

years ago mine was parsnickety like yours and I'd always be able to get it to finally start w/ this method

not a fix but at least may get you going if yer issue's fuel related and not spark

but as been noted, you've got some dilligence ahead of you - which in the end will produce your remedy

not really $ wasted, as all of these things you'll need to do eventually anywayz... like relay'ing the FP's... might as well before you start getting stuck WHILE going... unfun / BTDT

sorry don't have part # for the 911 accumulator, just search our host's store here and you'll find it easy enough - here's a pic tho for reference (note the bent fitting @ bottom of OE part... fukking line was on there TIIIIIIIIGHT, real sumbish to get it to crack loose):



good luck / report back
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| '58 TR3A | '01 S8 | '95 S6 6gang | '88 M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |

Last edited by krasuskyp; 06-19-2013 at 05:56 AM..
Old 06-19-2013, 05:51 AM
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The "violently pump the gas pedal" method worked!

BTW, I checked the old receipts I got with the car; in Dec 2003 the fuel accumulator was replaced. Also, it appears there was some other fuel system work done to the car. There were only 5k miles added to the car since then. I think it's safe to say it's not the FA.

Thinking about getting the adjustable WUR (Adjustable 930 WUR Website) since my long term plans are to increase the HP through exhaust and turbo upgrades. Sounds like a great investment regardless of the current problems.

Scott
Old 06-20-2013, 05:31 AM
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once, in a wee while - I'm good for something

glad it helped - like I said, not a solution but certainly a work around to get you going and not be STUCK

forget the correlation there, why pumping like that helps in that instance - but it does work

as mentioned, you should relay your FP's anyway as you will get stuck (when not if)

yes... BLWUR is highly recommended

since sorting the items mentioned, and adding the BLWUR (and headers/IC)... my car's never run so good - it's actualy DAMN GOOD

worth the diag time & effort, and the $ expenditure - exponentially so!

good luck
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '08 M3 6gang vert |
past:

| '07 S6 | '98 M3 vert | '01 M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 S8 | '95 S6 6gang | '88 M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 06-20-2013, 07:13 AM
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I like the FP rewire idea. Based on the instructions I've found, sounds like it should be fairly straight forward. I'll Add this to the project list.
Old 06-20-2013, 11:45 AM
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OK Paul, we'll give you credit for the pumping like a bastard idea. I'm changing my view and may no longer laugh at people that haven't come over to the dark side of fuel injection and are still living in the carburetted past where accelerator pumps and choke butterflys were the norm for starting cars. I've always got a kick out of folks (often old timers like us) that when confronted with a non-starting car can be seen violently stomping the bee-Jesus out of their go pedal, hoping to squirt some go-juice and get going!

Relative to this post, I'm fer thinkin' the hot issue is with injectors leaking down and pooling on top of the pistons. The stomping/pumping while cranking is letting more air in...same as just holding the pedal to the metal and cranking till she farts.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:10 PM
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Might not be fuel issue i had a bad green wire to my distributor that would make it do the same thing. Chased it for several years until it finally was bad enough to catch it with a meter.

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Old 06-21-2013, 06:39 AM
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