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Almost a perfect weekend...

Drove my 78 930 up north to Charlevoix Michigan this weekend. Having owned the car for only a couple weeks this would be a good test of what I've got. Basically the car ran fantastic... no engine issues at all. The wind noise was a bit annoying so I'll have to work on that. Also, will have to upgrade the headlights to the new H4.

I figure I put on around 500 miles total. So after I returned home and left the car in the driveway for a 1/2 hr or so, I went out to pull it into the garage. The car turned over and over and over but would not fire! Tried a little gas, then floored it, no change. Just more over and over and over.

So close to a perfect weekend!

So I started searching the archives here...

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

Appreciate any help I can get. Thanks.

Scott

Old 06-16-2013, 05:46 PM
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Search fuel accumulators here.
Agree the windshield noise is excessive. That trim probably costs a few MPH !
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:01 PM
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I would do a quick look at the two red relays in your fuse box (the two closest to the windshield as those power the fuel pumps, remove and insert again, they loose contact sometimes)
Plus the make sure fuel pump fuse did not burn up (6th in from the windshield on fuse box)
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:22 PM
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I'd bet it'll start now, mine does the same periodocally. Changed accumulator, hoses, relays, filter... Really makes me wonder if its the cdi losing umph when hot...
Old 06-16-2013, 06:48 PM
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turn the key on,, pop the tail,, push the plunger (mix adjustment unit) to get some gas in the CSI and it should fire right up
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:27 PM
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Second on the two red relays and also, take a look at the fuse supplying the two fuel pumps. Both run off the same fuse and the fuse and holders simply burn off... Not enough Amp to burn the fuse, but it slowly turns black with the heat and eventually, the car does not start. Especially after a long drive. If that's your issue, it is an easy mod to split the relays and add another fuse.
Let us know what you found.
David
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:35 PM
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update: Went out this morning to start the car. It fired up but only very roughly... as if only a few cylinders firing. With a lot of throttle massaging got it going and then it took off and settled in. Turned the car off and tried to restart; perfect, tried a second time, perfect.

Before this weekend the car started perfectly every time; no matter cold, hot or warm.

Hope this helps with the trouble shooting.
Old 06-17-2013, 03:08 AM
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Sounds exactly like a fuel accumulator. The CIS built up enough pressure to fire but it took a minute to properly pressurize. the problem will only get worse and show its face every time the car is parked after its warmed up. btdt
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Old 06-17-2013, 04:07 AM
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I lived through that scenario for the first bit of ownership (hard hot starts, stumble-to-life starts, etc.), finally sorted it by doing literally all of the above incrementally.

starts every time since w/o even turning over - hot or cold - and purrs like a kitten always

soooooooooo gooooooooooooood when it's GOOD 8-)

I pulled into werk earlier and let it idle down to cool... but also b/c shutting it off means 'it' would end. Hot idle @ 1025 thru Rarly Hooligan after a good run and right @ 14.7... ahhhhhhhh the sound 'n smell..........


ps. FWIW many of us here have gone w/ the cheaper smaller 911 accumulator w/ great result... just a thought. Takes about 4min to install, I lived w/ mine entiiiiiiiirely too long as I'm a moron - git'rdun!
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:18 AM
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The correct one is over $500! and not even in stock.

What's the pelican part # for the smaller one? I'll give it a try.

Thanks.
Old 06-17-2013, 05:34 AM
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Don't throw money at it blindly because of all the extensive hearsay here.....

Check for spark at the plugs, listen for both fuel pumps running, and hook up a fuel pressure gauge before spending
money on parts that are probably good.
Old 06-17-2013, 06:18 AM
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9dreizig, Is there a pic somewhere showing where this is? Also, should I use this method whenever I'm faced with a "walk home" event?
Scott
Old 06-17-2013, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roby466 View Post
take a look at the fuse supplying the two fuel pumps. Both run off the same fuse and the fuse and holders simply burn off... Not enough Amp to burn the fuse, but it slowly turns black with the heat and eventually, the car does not start. Especially after a long drive. If that's your issue, it is an easy mod to split the relays and add another fuse.
Let us know what you found.
David
Had exactly the same symptom as OP and exactly this was the problem
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
Don't throw money at it blindly because of all the extensive hearsay here.....

Check for spark at the plugs, listen for both fuel pumps running, and hook up a fuel pressure gauge before spending
money on parts that are probably good.
good advice. check the leak down.

mine stays pressurized for quite a while. but it will eventually go to zero. like the next day. it still starts the same.
now that i say that. how many days should it hold pressure?

is there a check valve in the fuel line like the 911 has?
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:25 AM
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is there a check valve in the fuel line like the 911 has?
The threaded male banjo fitting post that sticks out of the front fuel pump is also the check valve for the fuel supply system. The check valve is on the inside it and you can see some of the sheck valve spring through the fuel holes if you look at it from the side.

Bosch 044 fuel pumps come with the check valve male post for the banjo fitting like this one with the spacer removed from under it to shorten the overall length of the fuel pump.
Old 06-17-2013, 10:34 AM
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Mine will light up in the first 1/4 turn of the crank no matter how many weeks she sits between runs, and only takes maybe one good revolution when hot. Thank God my accumulator is still in good shape.

Scott - to your original post - "giving it a little gas" won't do anything. Fine if you're driving a carburetted car with an accelerator pump, but keep your foot off the gas with CIS. The gas thing is all taken care of for you! But if for some reason it's flooded, then holding it to the floor might help get more air in there.

Keep it simple as Jim has said. We tend to give worse-case scenario advice on here. If you can hear your pumps running and the relays are hot enough to fry an egg, then assume you're good to go in that area. As everyone has already said, it might be fuel accumulator related. But let me offer this up to everyone: A bad accumulator may result in more cranks than normal to start up, but eventually it should build pressure and start! Right/wrong...what d'yall think?

CDI heat soak was also mentioned. Maybe, maybe not. Put a baggie of ice on the CDI for a few minutes next time she acts up. Just some diagnostic stuff from someone that's 'out there' more often than not anymore.....
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:27 PM
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starts every time since w/o even turning over - hot or cold - and purrs like a kitten always
Paul, you've got one hell of a special car if it starts without turning over - must have such high static compression that you simply nod your head at it and vroooommmm!
Old 06-17-2013, 06:35 PM
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Paul, you've got one hell of a special car if it starts without turning over - must have such high static compression that you simply nod your head at it and vroooommmm!
LMAO, even though I'm too old to text!
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:05 PM
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Sir Ronalot... I will my car to start, I'm that awesome yeah. Sometimes the Jedi Mind Trick helps.

Markymark... foot to floor on hot starts reaaaaaaaaaaally helps mine pop right to life. If I don't, it will crank and stutter a bit. Guess I shoulda mentioned that 8-).
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:11 AM
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you should not have to do anything to help these cars to start. if you have to , something is not right.

mine fired right up hot or cold when i first got it. ithink pressures and mixture were adjusted to compensate for air leaks. now that i have fixed the air leaks and have screwed with the pressures, it takes a few cranks when cold but fires up when hot.
when i am sure everything is fixed, the last thing i will tweak is the cold start.


i would have to floor the 77s when it was hot and sat for 30 minutes to an hour due to bad accumulator. my residual pressure was non exsistant. its would also run rough for a few minutes after starting.

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88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
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08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 06-18-2013, 05:31 AM
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