Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 1,920
Garage
Back to Mobil 1 for me

I like to change my oil every 12 months, regardless of the mileage which for this car with it's lack of heat (and until last year lack of AC) has averaged around 3k a year. I change my Mahle filter but not oil after a track day. Again, just me. YMMV.

Anyway, last year I drank the Brad Penn cool-aid and immediately noticed the car ran a tick hotter and with higher oil pressure. It would run hallway between the first two oil hash marks temp wise, and almost on 4 bar around let's say 2500RPM and up. Both are fine and some might say normal, but both were higher than my years of experience with Mobil 1 (same grade).

Today I just renewed the oil and filter with Mobil 1 15w-50 and Mahle filter, and the engine temp is back to barely getting off the first hash mark and runs more around 3 bar on the pressure gauge than 4.

I can only assume the M1 flows easier (so doesnt build up back pressure) and this greater flow can carry away more heat. I'm staying with it.

__________________
Ken
1986 930, 1969 Mach1, 2003 540 Sport, 2016 R1200RS
Old 06-17-2013, 03:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rockwall, Texas
Posts: 8,760
When you say "first hash mark" do you mean the first white portion of the gauge (at the bottom of the range)? If so, that is far too cold an operating oil temperature.
Old 06-17-2013, 03:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
9Thirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 217
Motorcycle Oil | Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50
Old 06-17-2013, 04:43 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 1,920
Garage
Hey, Ronnie- no, I meant the thin line around 8 o'clock on the gauge. At least on my 86 gauge, when cold the needle rests in a white block near 7 o'clock. As the engine heats up, the needle leaves that block and goes up to just past the next (thinner) line. The tiny numbers in the margin next to it appear to be "90".
__________________
Ken
1986 930, 1969 Mach1, 2003 540 Sport, 2016 R1200RS
Old 06-17-2013, 04:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
CaptainCalf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lithia, FL
Posts: 1,265
As long as you don't develop leaks you should be fine cuz M1 15w50 has plenty of phos & zinc for flat tappets, but the motorcycle 20w50 does have more of both...
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf
__________________
FS 1987 930 DTAFast EFI w/Electronic Dash, 17x9x11" Lindsey Racing Fuchs, Andial 8.39 R&P, C2 Intake, SuperCup Cams, Flame Ringed Heads & Cylinders, TurboKraft Full Bay Intercooler, RearlyL8 Twin Scroll Headers, Big Bullseye Twin Scroll Turbo...SOLD
1999 Harley Davidson Custom 1250 Hardtail Bobber..SOLD
2014 BMW X6M, 2012 BMW 128i, 2014 GMC Sierra, 2015 Cobia 237 Center Console 300hp Yamaha
Old 06-17-2013, 04:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,289
Good move.
Mobil one good
Brad Penn bad.. NFG
Old 06-17-2013, 05:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Back in B'ham, AL
Posts: 3,448
Don't bother to try something else.
Old 06-17-2013, 05:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mark houghton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Central Washington State
Posts: 3,873
Oh man, another oil thread. Synthetics are good, if you can accept the possibility of some leaks. As to the temperature, I took a spirited run this weekend and it was about 92-94 outside...my gauge ran just a hair above the first white line...which is pretty much where it always runs, and that's with dinosaur sqeezin's Valvoline 20/50 VR1. I also have a front oil cooler. Oil pressure pretty much always above the 4 mark.
__________________
Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 06-17-2013, 06:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Glorious Pac NW
Posts: 3,481
Problem with thinking oil formulation stays the same, is that it doesn't. IIRC, Mobil 1 hasn't been synthetic in the US for around 6 years, while that long ago it still was in Europe - dunno about now.

(Read that on one of those humongous oil threads and I'm certainly not going back to find it...)

Shell Rotella. Good additive pack, cheap as chips, no kool aid. Several types - including full synthetic.
__________________
'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 06-17-2013, 07:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,289
You're recalling incorrectly.

Mobil one is synthetic and always has been.
There are 2 different formulations of the 15w-50. The regular one is good for 911 motors and the "extended perfomance" one is not good for 2 valve head 911 motors. It's for 4 valve head water cooled motors with catalytic converters.

There is also Mobil One 20w-50 for air cooled motorcycles. It has the most ZDDP in it and it's the best.
Walmart has the lowest price on it I've seen.
Old 06-17-2013, 07:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 6,246
Garage
I was using mobile1 v-twin but I'm just too poor for that $tuff. I put mileage on my car so it's too expensive every other month plus the added quart or so that we all know we need in between.
But I have very good oil cooling and let her idle down some before I turn it off. So I use the rotella triple protection. It's good stuff and I know it has the protection that my tappets need.
I used to only use synthetic mobile 1 back in the day with my turbo audi's but these cars need zddp more than heat protection. I could easily be wrong but I hope I'm not
We all are very concerned about the health of our engines and oil is a sensitive subject for that reason.
__________________
Turbo powa!
1977 911s. it's cool
Old 06-17-2013, 07:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Glorious Pac NW
Posts: 3,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
You're recalling incorrectly.

Mobil one is synthetic and always has been.
Only if you define "synthetic" as "from Group III base stock", which many (including the Germans) don't - regarding instead Group IV (e.g Royal Purple) and Group V (e.g Redline) non-hydrocracked base as "synthetic".


From a 2010 post on a leaked Exxon Mobil powerpoint presentation regarding Mobil 1 using Group III - and Viscom *Mobil 1 - PAO & Visom - Bob Is The Oil Guy:


Quote:
I reported this change in the M1 formulations here four years ago and a global firestorm ensued. I took lots of grief over it, including people writing to the owner of my company, and dragging my name through the mud on the Internet. There are still people who adamantly deny that M1 formulations use Group III.

This presentation, dating sometime between 2005 and 2009, clearly shows that EM changed the M1 formulations to include Group III+, and that they did not want to tell their customers:

Quote:
With the exception of Germany, this reformulation will be invisible to consumers and B2B customers.
and:

Quote:
There will be no proactive customer communication relating to this reformulation. However, an internal briefing document and Q&A has been prepared to allow sales to respond in the unlikely event of a customer question.
This explains all the canned responses customers got when they asked EM about the change.

As I have consistently said, I use M1 and consider it a great oil, but I am happy that the truth is finally confirmed by EM. My name is finally cleared.

Tom NJ
It would be illegal to describe Group III oils as synthetic in Germany, BTW. Which is presumably why the change isn't "transparent" there.

The debate rages on in that thread for some 30 pages.
__________________
'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 06-17-2013, 07:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 1,920
Garage
One of the tiresome things about "oil threads", as Mark H alluded to, is how much opinion and half- assed tech is thrown around in them and how few conclusions can be drawn from them. Who the hell knows if running brand X for 3,500 miles led to accelerated wear, when no one is measuring anything.
I hope this thread is slightly different. There's a school of thought that says run whatever you want, just change it regularly. I don't buy that anymore. I'm a long time 930 owner who knows my car well, and empirically it started running hotter and with more pressure particularly when cold with Brad Penn. I went back to the M1 and temp and pressure is back to how it used to be. I figured I'd post my finding.
__________________
Ken
1986 930, 1969 Mach1, 2003 540 Sport, 2016 R1200RS
Old 06-17-2013, 08:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Glorious Pac NW
Posts: 3,481
Well, the point is merely that Mobil 1 used to be made from Group IV base. No longer. It now contains Group III. Probably no oil on the market is the same formulation it was 10 years ago.

I'm not saying Mobil 1 isn't a fine oil; I've run it. Only reason I bring it up was because my recollection was questioned.

However, the API apparently regard "synthetic" as a marketing term now. From a 2000 oil trade rag (Lubricants World - ooh err missus) article Is Your Synthetic Motor Oil Really Synthetic:

Quote:
Exactly one year after the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus’ ruling in April 1999, upholding Castrol’s position that wax isomerates could be called synthetic, Petro-Canada (Toronto) advertised it would be referring to its very high viscosity index (VHVI) basestocks as a synthetic in the North American market. These products fall into the same API group (Group III) as wax isomerates, but could vary significantly in quality from wax isomerates. This market roar by Petro-Canada has carried a quiet undertone of moves from PAO to VHVI technology by several engine oil marketers.
Does it matter? Decide for yourselves. I'm out of this thread.
__________________
'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 06-17-2013, 10:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Johns Creek, GA
Posts: 1,392
if you use Valv VR1 2050, it is on sale at Autozone for $3.99 qt. this price is only good if you buy it on line/pick up in the store.
__________________
Charles
79 930 #632
88 911 Cab
74 TR6
88 CRX Si
Old 06-18-2013, 03:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,304
Garage
gsxrken,
This is the first year I've run 100% M1 V-Twin 20-50W. In previous years, I've used a 50/50 blend of M1 15-50W and M1 V-Twin. Two observations, valve train noise is more subdued with either combination over any other oil I've used. Secondly, oil pressure throughout different temperature ranges seems more consistent.

Quattrorunner,
I only use synthetic oil for only one reason, its resistance to coking.( whether it's 100%, 90%, 80% synthetic is not the issue here ). V-Twin was selected for its ZDDP content. After going through valve damage to coking bits clogging #3 and #6 cylinder spray bar orifices, synthetic is the only oil this engine sees. Since that fateful event, I use an inline oil filter between the turbo sump pump and main oil tank. Porsche in its infinite wisdom, chose not to filter the oil from the turbocharger before returning it to the oil tank. What were they thinking?!
__________________
Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 06-18-2013, 05:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
wjfk32's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,257
Always been using VR-1 20W-50 and happy.
Just changed to Mobil-Delvac 1300/15w-40...Very Happy, good zinc-1300+.
Did a search on Bobs-oil forum. I have faster start-ups-better mileage-boost comes in sooner-revs faster-temps/pressure are the same as VR-1 on my gauges. Plus a little cheaper in Price-Walmart.

Walt
Old 06-18-2013, 07:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mark houghton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Central Washington State
Posts: 3,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by WERK I View Post
Porsche in its infinite wisdom, chose not to filter the oil from the turbocharger before returning it to the oil tank. What were they thinking?!
Too much beer during lunch breaks for the engineers!
__________________
Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 06-18-2013, 11:49 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
proffighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,185
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
...There is also Mobil One 20w-50 for air cooled motorcycles. It has the most ZDDP in it and it's the best.
BUT Motorcycle oils have different needs to cover and therefore not recommendable for cars in general. For example there are additives to prevent clutch slipping as it runs in the same oil. Further middle piston speed (correct term in english?) is almost double. Pressure due the gears is very high, as transmission is in the same oil too (need for high shear stability). For this reason there is a present standard called JASO MA for bike oils...

Short said: Bad idea
__________________
Roland

930 Turbo '81 Too many modifications to list
Old 06-18-2013, 12:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,289
I've never heard any proof that the mobil one v-twin 20w-50 motorcycle oil is no good for 911 motors, and never heard anyone say negative things about it until you did.
whatever...


Last edited by JFairman; 06-18-2013 at 01:21 PM..
Old 06-18-2013, 01:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:42 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.