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Brando
 
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AFR EGT tuning thoughts

I have been using an EGT gauge for a few months now and really like the added input on how things are running.
Last week, I went on a short trip that included some bursts of speed and some cool down times as well. Sort of a normal road trip alone with no outside input sitting next to me.
The day before, I had richened up my mixture because I was pretty sure it runs too lean at highway speed constant. It's good on boost but had been running 15-16.5/1 afr at least. So I had changed it to slightly more rich, or more like it should run at highway speeds.
Some of you may remember that I have had trouble with my afr's and that hasn't changed. My afr's today are idle 12/1 or so, cruise 15/1, and full boost full throttle 11.5/1.
Somehow I don't know how to get a leaner mix at idle without super-leaning out the cruise. I don't really care about idle since it runs good but it does bother me that everyone else has closer to 14/1 idle.....whatever.
So anyway, back to my roadtrip, I found that my egt were getting high (1550+ and sometimes past 1600) going uphill light throttle at 90mph. I feel it's probably normal to have higher egts going uphill at 4000rpm rather quickly but have been reading up and feel 1600 is pretty damn hot. Thoughts?
My egts get hotish (1550+) full throttle 11.5/1 afr 130-150mph. It cools really quickly obviously when I slow down some but if I hover over 85mph I have hot egts over 1550.
Anyone else use EGT gauge? What do you see?

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Old 06-21-2013, 10:01 AM
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funny, i was thinking about EGT the other day and thinking it would be good to talk to a pilot since they monitor their EGT's.

you and me both have the same problem.
very lean cruise, good boost and good idle.
i recently found that my WG was leaking very badly past the valve guide.
i have seen some of your posts but did not know if you had yours fixed. perhaps we can work together on this.
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Last edited by T77911S; 06-21-2013 at 10:34 AM..
Old 06-21-2013, 10:31 AM
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Just for reference I looked at some of my old logs

Full throttle second gear
6200 RPM
1.0 bar boost
11.7 AFR
1550F EGT
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:53 AM
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do you have an adj WUR?

solved the canudrum you mention for me

I'm hitting 1500EGT, maybe 1550, dunno... I'll look again on way home, I've only noted it in the 1500 and under range but then again it shares space w/ my AFR (VEMS dual readout) so my focus is typically there primarily - but I don't recall seeing 1600.

And my EGT probe is 1cyl-only not multi so it's of questionable value, but I needed to choose a 2nd parameter to monitor when getting the gauge and figured what the heck...
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| '07 S6 | '98 M3 vert | '01 M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 S8 | '95 S6 6gang | '88 M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 06-21-2013, 12:02 PM
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Brando
 
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Thankseek. I'm glad I have two gauges so I can monitor both but I'm a geek like that. Plus at 140 you don't need to be playing with buttons

No, I feel I need the adjustable WUR but Brian B said he didn't know what I was having for symptoms. I felt like my issue probably was common and he could say yeah, get a adjustable WUR but not really. I stil think I will though because I'm running out of things to play with

Waiting for ronnie930 to place a big picture of JB weld on this thread.....keep and eye open for that
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:44 PM
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na mon, my AFR/EGT share a gauge but read out simultaneous... it's just that I don't pay as close attention to EGT:



your issue is common - that's how these things run w/o the BLWUR... don't even think about it, just get it...
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '08 M3 6gang vert |
past:

| '07 S6 | '98 M3 vert | '01 M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 S8 | '95 S6 6gang | '88 M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |

Last edited by krasuskyp; 06-21-2013 at 01:03 PM..
Old 06-21-2013, 01:01 PM
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Brando
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krasuskyp View Post
na mon, my AFR/EGT share a gauge but read out simultaneous... it's just that I don't pay as close attention to EGT:



your issue is common - that's how these things run w/o the BLWUR... don't even think about it, just get it...
O ok thanks!
Well that being said, without the EGT gauge, I would never know my temps were hot because my oil temps are great and my afr on boost is good too. So I wouild have just kept boosting like mad and watching my fuel gauge drop all the while i'd be 1600 degrees+ and just melt away? Think about the cars on the autobahn with half hour 130 or more mph runs? They doing damage with these EGT issues?
I guess from my reading, the air is hot, but the metal is not as much so because of the intake air and oil temps offsetting this? Still seems like the max temp was around 1650 and no more.
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Old 06-21-2013, 01:17 PM
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1150 on cold start idle
1250 hot idle
low 1400s on highway cruise
1480-1503 @ WOT
saw one spike to 1550 but came right down

HTH
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '08 M3 6gang vert |
past:

| '07 S6 | '98 M3 vert | '01 M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 S8 | '95 S6 6gang | '88 M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 06-21-2013, 02:35 PM
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Brando
 
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ok by comparo
500 on cold start idle
800 hot idle
low 1400s on highway cruise
1500-1550 @ WOT
saw one spike to 1620 but let off right away!
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:39 PM
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Brando
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinRice View Post
Just for reference I looked at some of my old logs

Full throttle second gear
6200 RPM
1.0 bar boost
11.7 AFR
1550F EGT
Thanks, would be cool to look at logs if I had them. Tell me about the system you use to store/recieve them?
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Old 06-21-2013, 03:00 PM
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Hey Kras:

Who is the mfr of that dual readout digital gauge you have?
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Old 06-21-2013, 03:59 PM
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Tommyboy:

I got the VEMS (Vehicle Engine Management Systems) gauge from my bud Mark Swanson in NH, he's a distributor of theirs. It can run any 2 inputs you want, and has a data cord to interface with if desired.

Top row I use for AFR and lights up red, bottom row is my EGT and lights up green - below that is a reset button for EGT.

I've yet to get that far with it (data cord). Love the gauge, just need to solve the wonkiness (see other post).

LMK if you ever want Mark's contact info, I'll refer you along - great guy (& genius)...
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '08 M3 6gang vert |
past:

| '07 S6 | '98 M3 vert | '01 M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 S8 | '95 S6 6gang | '88 M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |

Last edited by krasuskyp; 06-21-2013 at 06:48 PM..
Old 06-21-2013, 06:46 PM
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Brando
 
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Mark Swanson....I remember him from my Quattro days.
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:49 PM
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heh, no surprise there - he's a guru!

shoulda guessed by yer handle

what'd you used to run? mine obviously in me sig

heard of //SFest? That's me... er, was. Retired after 10yrs...
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '08 M3 6gang vert |
past:

| '07 S6 | '98 M3 vert | '01 M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 S8 | '95 S6 6gang | '88 M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 06-21-2013, 06:56 PM
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btw... "geek like that" - on way home, I was like geeze I've got 3 boost gauges!

d'oh!

ubergeek

OK the OE speedo unit's disabled but it's still there - then run a 935 2bar VDO telltale and the GReddy EBC has a digi one as well. Sensory overload in thar!
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '08 M3 6gang vert |
past:

| '07 S6 | '98 M3 vert | '01 M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 S8 | '95 S6 6gang | '88 M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 06-21-2013, 06:59 PM
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Brando
 
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Haha. Gee wiz dude.
Well that dude as well as Jim green and Nate Stewart and javad shatzi. They're from my days of frustration. I just couldn't get big power from the audis. Loved them though. I went through 16! Was a member of quattro club till they changed the name to Audi car club of America or some stupid name. So I quit that. Around the same time the Beddor guys went to ruf. No I never really did much with the clubs but went to Virginia city hill climb a couple times. That was cool.
Old 06-21-2013, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattrorunner View Post
Thanks, would be cool to look at logs if I had them. Tell me about the system you use to store/recieve them?
It's a Zeitronix ZT-2 system:

Zeitronix : Wideband Engine Datalogging Systems and Accessories

I bought this in 2005, after a ton of research, because it would log much more than an Innovate at the time. Over the years they've added more function and sensors, so it has stayed fairly current. This display fits nicely in the ashtray slot.

I'll be using it with my MS3 conversion.
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Old 06-22-2013, 07:07 AM
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ah yes, Jim / Nate / Javad... small world

didn't know the Beddor's went Ruf... kewl

I'll prob aim to get back into those POS's in a coupla years, likely a D3 S8 or C6 S6... gotta have me some dat V10age heh heh

Swanson's a good dude, before he moved to NH he was local here and we'd hang frequently. Now I just seem him @ der //Festivus, but then he's always the man in demand and very busy tuning diag'ing and what not...
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '08 M3 6gang vert |
past:

| '07 S6 | '98 M3 vert | '01 M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 S8 | '95 S6 6gang | '88 M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 06-22-2013, 07:38 AM
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Brando
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krasuskyp View Post
ah yes, Jim / Nate / Javad... small world

didn't know the Beddor's went Ruf... kewl

I'll prob aim to get back into those POS's in a coupla years, likely a D3 S8 or C6 S6... gotta have me some dat V10age heh heh

Swanson's a good dude, before he moved to NH he was local here and we'd hang frequently. Now I just seem him @ der //Festivus, but then he's always the man in demand and very busy tuning diag'ing and what not...
Yeah, went ruf but still loved the Quattro as well.
Google beddor and ruf and you'll see how important beddor was to ruf and vise versa. His boys Steve and David campaigned ctr2 cars and did very well nationally in street legal cars from ruf. Even at pikes peak. Cool stuff.
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Old 06-22-2013, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
it would be good to talk to a pilot since they monitor their EGT's.
A turbocharged Lycoming 540 (6 cylinder 540 cu inch, 350hp) will peak at about 1650, but you are not suppose to operate there continuously. The usual practice is to set mixture 100F rich of peak, so at about 1550. That would be continuous 75% of power.

At full power you are at full rich mixture and lower EGTs.

AT 65% of power or less you can be 50-100F lean of peak. It is a factory approved setting and it worked for me, but many pilots and engineers feel its better to be on rich side of peak.

I don't have EGT in my Porsche yet and don't know how this translate to 930 engine. 1550F is getting up there. If you only running one probe, there is a chance the other cylinder is sitting at higher temp.

I had similar issue with pumped up Subaru engines I was playing with in the past. Advancing ignition at cruise sometimes all the way to 40 or 42 deg would fix that.

Old 06-23-2013, 08:27 AM
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