Just for the information of everyone else, Clint installed my rear bushings in a single day, but I only had polyurethane ones to take off. Getting the rubber bushings off is what takes the longest. Clint started around 10AM and finished around 7PM I think, but that included talking with several people who came by, driving a friend to the airport, dealing with a very rusty torsion tube on one side, removing a timesert that had a broken tap in it (from a different mechanic) on that same side, and lathing the bushings to fit. Oh, and we decided to change torsion bars while we were in there and one side took forever to get the spring plate angle correct. One side took about 3 times as long as the other because of the rust, bolt issue (Having 3 bolts for the time being made it hard to bolt on the cover without causing binding), and the fussy spring plate. The other side only took a couple hours at most.

So if you have poly bushings in there you should be able to do the rears in one day, or at least one weekend. Just use the "JB Kwik" or whatever they call it. Sets faster than the normal JB Weld.

Yes, I could agree that just the spring plate bushings would be a day, albeit a long one.

I can report that Jim's idea of in-place banana arm bushing replacement is the way to go, or a way to go if you don't need to replace rear wheel bearings.

By loosening the trans mount, I could lever it over enough to get a 22mm offset wrench on the bushing through-bolt's nut. That allowed me to drop the arm from the body mounting ears, and pry off the outside of the bushing cover. This still leaves the inner bushing sleeve in the arm, but I was able to sharpen a chisel attachment on my air hammer and deform/destroy the bushing and then fish it out with a flat head screwdriver. Of course one needs to be careful of the soft aluminum arm:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-N...8_12_18_25.jpg

As stated by Jim as well, after the one side is out, a socket that just fits inside the inner diameter of the arm can then be slid in and the inside bushing half can be pounded out.
I'm glad I went through the trouble... the bushings inside were deformed in a very similar manner to the spring plate bushings. The constant weight of the car over the years causes the rubber to compress in the weight bearing plane. It's somewhat apparent in this pic (old on left, new on right) but more so in person:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_...8_12_18_25.jpg

Getting the bushings in was simple too. Heat gun on the arm, white lithium grease in the arm and on the bushing sleeve, and then draw them together into the arm first with a c-clamp and then a final seating with the through bolt and nut acting on two huge washers I have. Actually the washers are the thick turbo tie rod spacers- I knew I would use them for something when I tossed them in the bolt bin! This pic is after the c-clamp but before the bolt operation:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-i...8_12_18_25.jpg

I never did anything about plating the spring plate. It's probably going to flash over with some surface rust eventually.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-E...8_12_18_25.jpg

Still have the Tarrett sway bar to do, and put the car on the ground to see where my ride height is at. I'm sure that will take a few attempts to get right.

And looking ahead a little further, what is the adhesive I should use to re-glue the vinyl rock guard to the wheel flare when I am done-done with this job?

If you know your corner weights, torsion bar diameter, tire diameter, and the height from the torsion bar axis to ground I can give you a spring plate setting that ought to work. It will at least be close enough to only need minor adjustment with the spring plate.

I am assuming that the Turbo torsion bars are the same length as normal 911s, and that the spring plate is the same length.

Thanks for the offer but I only have the rear of the car in the air so angles and measurements are all relative because the car is tail-high. I assembled the plates on the new 30mm bars at 2 degrees less than my baseline because I wish to drop the car slightly. It can't be too far off but who knows. I hear the new shocks can raise body height too.

2 degrees is around 5/8". Stiffer torsion bars than what you started with will, of course, reduce that difference (or even reverse it).

Hey Max- do you know if the custom Bilsteins need the dust cover from the old shock? The newer shocks use a wider diameter thread and would require that I drill the old green cover so it slips on the new shock. They might rattle around too, since it appears the travel limiter is not as wide as the old one and thus would not keep the cover tight to the bushing.
If they are not required, thats fine. My vintage mustang has custom bilsteins as well and has exposed pistons for many years without ill effect. Thanks

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Z...8_16_22_42.jpg

I am not sure, but I am leaning towards no. The only reason they would be needed on anything is to help keep dirt away from the seal but it sounds like the seal alone is enough for you. It's extra weight gone. :)

I thought I'd continue to document the suspension overhaul for those that might follow. I hit a huge bump in the road, had to rewind a bit, and then proceed but with rear coil overs.

I found that I could not assemble my LH side spring plate without binding. Meaning, as I began to snug up the four bolts that hold the outer cover, they got tight early (before the cover was tight to the threaded standoffs) and the arm was tightly bound in the bushings and would not swing. Here's a shot of the assembly as it was binding. Note the spaces between the bushings... they should just about be touching.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K...9_+3_18_38.jpg

Unfortunately, my torsion bar's splines was holding my spring plate at a slightly different angle than the bushing cemented into the torsion bar tube. These bushings really do not tolerate any mismatch. My original rubber bushings were deforming enough that it wasn't an issue, but these one's wouldn't permit it without binding.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-U...9_+3_18_38.jpg

I thought perhaps I epoxied the bushing in at an angle, because without the torsion bar installed I could tighten the outer cover right up to the spring plate with no binding. If you have ever tried to remove the slow-cure JB Weld in-situ, you know what I went through. I had to crank up the acetylene torch and use an infrared heat sensor to determine when I reached 600*F and the epoxy would release. Well at 600*F, the amount of smoke, stink, and drooping undercoating is very alarming. I had the extinguisher and garden hose on hot-standby.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9...9_+3_18_38.jpg

I did get it out but could not figure out what exactly was off. The hole is concentric as proven by my Starrett caliper, and nothing appears to be tweaked around it or on the torsion tube.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-K...9_+3_18_39.jpg

The whole job is of course on the cramped LH side where my Kuehl fender condenser is installed. No easy way to undo it all with losing my R-134 and that wasn't going to happen.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-X...9_+3_18_39.jpg

Additionally, during the course of the banana arm bushing R&R, I rounded out the brake line nut (despite using the proper metric flare wrench) attempting to undo it as I did on the other side. I should have snipped the flexible line and spun the end of it off the line nut, but I am beginning to forget half of what I used to know. So new brake line had to be made up, and I renewed the flexible line while I was at it. Hard line is NLA and auto stores have 20" and 30" lengths pre made, so it was off to a friendly shop to have them flare my cut-down 30" generic length.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-f...9_+3_20_44.jpg

Clint at Rebel sent another bushing and race at no cost despite my offer to pay at least shipping.
Prior to epoxying it again, I attempted to install it dry but with the torsion bar installed and I again could not snug up the outer cover bolts without bind. This proved, to my dismay, that I hadn't installed the first bushing race in incorrectly. Without the bar, the spring plate tightens up nicely without binding and without deflection, which is the whole point of these bushings, right? And it lines up nicely with the banana arm surface too.

So I could go back to new rubber bushings and not deal with it, or I could go with rear coil overs and take the torsion bar effect out of the equation. I was this far into it that I was not going to go back to rubber. Another call to Clint and he agreed to take the 30mm bars back in exchange for his rear coil over kit.
http://rebelracingproducts.com/images/RearCOKit.jpg

Luckily, the custom Bilstein rear shocks that I got from him have a groove in the body to also serve as the basis of the rear coil over snap ring for the coil overs. These were damped to match the 30mm bars, and Clint suggested I go with some 350lb springs on the coli overs to maintain the same wheel rate.

That's where it sits. My fears of tying up the car for prime driving season have fully been realized, due in part to this weird issue but more on my schedule. Blows, but the end is near and it should be a huge improvement.

Getting close there my friend, are you eventually going with coilovers in the front as well or just leaving it like that for now?

Dang Ken, your suspension upgrade is being a PITA. Mine sorta went like that too. Turbos love the cool days of fall, so git 'er done and back on the road. Bring the car over to Monticello for some shakedown laps :)

A very belated set of updates to this thread follow:
I did end up installing the Rebel Racing rear coil over kit with 350lb springs.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c...9_+8_20_50.jpg

Actually not shown is the little Eibach helper springs that I subsequently installed as well, since I found that the could spring was rattling around freely when the car was at full droop like it would be if you completely unloaded the suspension over the crest of a hill. That just didn't sit well with me, so off they came again and I installed the helper springs that take up that inch or so when and if it ever happens.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-A...9_+8_20_50.jpg

A few shots of the Tarrett rear sway ba and the mounts that also serve as one of the rear alignment adjusters:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-L...1_24_15_+1.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-g...1_24_15_+1.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s...1_24_15_+1.jpg

One of the things with these, and any other anti-sway bars really, is that you need to take all of the preload out of them for an alignment and corner balance. I just put them roughly centered for the time being, as I've done no tuning yet.

One of things that dragged this on for so long was my DIY instinct, which really was misplaced here when it came to the alignment. I purchased the Smart Strings and Camber gauge kit and the amount of times the car needs to go up in the air, tweaked, driven a bit, and then reset up with the strings kit gets foolish for someone with my time constraints at the present.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6...1_24_15_+1.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Q...1_24_15_+1.jpg

New rims and ride height set a little too low for good handling:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7...1_24_15_+1.jpg

I still am headed to Dan Jacobs shop in CT next week for a corner balance, ride height tweak, and final/final alignment.
July to November, yeah that went as planned...

But dammit it looks good!

Damn brother...she's looking ssswweeeetttt!

+1000

We now have almost the same set-up, but I raised my front spindles up 40mm & went with 23 /30 t-bars & wevo weld on rear sway bar mounts, 17 x 8.5 fronts & 18 x 11 rears.

Really surprised that Clint did not talk you into the raised spindles that as well.

Mine sits even lower than yours, and with all of the bits-n-pieces, handles superbly!

Mark

Thanks guys. Mark, your car sets the standard for stance as far as I am concerned. I'm an admirer.
I told Clint I was going for just a bit lower than euro and he said I'd be fine with stock spindles but if went too low I might want to get bump steer tie rods. I was also more than a little leery of sending mine out and getting hung out there from a turnaround perspective like some have... which is a bit laughable in hindsight as I was the long pole in the tent, not any supplier.

The car is already much more compliant. I have LESS NVH than I had before if one can really trust memory with four months in between rides. Brake dive much improved. I want to join the NY/NJ/CT run on Saturday after my CB and ride height and then final alignment at Dan Jacobs and I will have a full 300+ mile report.

Oh yeh the bump steer kit...... I did forget to mention that I do have the full monty bump steer arrangement from Clint as well.

Speed bumps...we don't care about any stinking speed bumps!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385431413.jpg

Mark

Quite the journey, glad you finally got it sorted out.

With the rear coilovers, don't you need to reinforce the upper mount? I've seen pictures of unreinforced uppers that have cracked and pulled away without reinforcement.

Mark, your car looks absolutely badass!

Looks great! I'm about to embark on a similar project without the sway bars and coil overs. Would you be so kind as to list any special tools that are required, or just make the job easier? I'm a big "right tool for the job" guy. Thanks for sharing your work.

Yes. And you shouldn't run with scissors or swim right after a meal either. ;)
But actually old wives tales do come from somewhere, so I did purchase the kit from Clint (and some spare bushings for the rears just for my own paranoia of small vendors disappearing off the earth). But I'll be damned if I'm dropping the engine right now after this, or trying to weld them in with a partial drop. I have a great miller syncrowave 185SD TIG welder, but it (or better said, I) require some real clean metal and some elbow room to put down nice beads.
I'll drop it for something else soon enough and do them then.

On edit: Mark you sly dog.

So I can wrap up this thread now that I got to really exercise the car on a day long 300mile excursion. Let me lead with this- I would do it again but earlier. Waiting didn't save any money and the car could have been like this for a few years now.

The car tracks flatter, turns in quicker, and doesn't waggle boosting off a corner in 2nd gear like it used to. Brake dive is better and so is squat under accel (although I don't have the power many of you do). I do wonder if the Tarrett bars are adding some thump into the cabin that rubber bushings would lessen. I may disconnect them next spring and take a ride just to see what part of the equation they are playing. I have them full soft in the front and mid-way in the rear to start with, and didn't learn anything on the street that would make me change them yet. I didn't push the car to where I experienced any understeer or oversteer in either case. Another interesting observation is how sound plays a role in feel. I had noise canceling headphones with me and when they are on, the car feels more civilized, more modern if you will. Take them off after a bit, and it seems like the harshness of the road imperfections grows. Of course it doesn't, but this is a very repeatable sensation.
Lastly, like many of these suspension updates, I can't say how much is just due to R&R-ing 26 year old parts and how much is the bushing and shock design. No doubt the car was never this firm- that's just math- but the feedback is much more direct. I can't wait for a track day!

Here's how she sits after the CB and alignment:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-i...o/DSC_1874.JPG

I love the way it's sits..perfect stance! I'm glad to hear it was all worth it. I was told by Dan J. that I might get some noise from my sway bars(Smart Racing). Though you have Tarrets, the design is very similiar. Can't say that I heard much(just a faint noise). Then again you put more miles on your car in one day than I probably have put in my car since the install..lol. Your assessment is why my advice to anyone buying a 930 is, always do your suspension first prior to any mod. Most of these cars are over 25+ years old. Regardless of miles(garage queens included) the suspension should be treated first unless the selling owner has proof that he or she has gone over the suspension.

p.s. Ken..when's the power bump coming?..:D

Your Tarett sway bars can't be as noisy as the old, ill-fitting rubber bushings on my weltmeister bars. I only noticed it after installing the nice and quiet Rebel Racing bushings everywhere else though.

Rear Trailing arm Bushing fit
 

Rebel Racing rear kit issue is the bushing that fits onto the chassis stands out about 5.5mm too far where the flange should be flush. Am I missing something?
Clint's mailbox is full so no phone contact, email sent but no reply yet, but just sent this morning. Anyone else have this issue? My plan is the machine the bushing down to where the flange fits flush against the chassis.
comments welcome, the car is a 71911E

Any pictures? I installed the rear bushings a couple years ago on a 79. I'll look at them when I get home.

Rebel Racing Rear bushing
 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596812384.jpg
Pic of torsion bar bushing.

I think that is normal. Attached is a pic of when I did mine. I had a short piece of aluminum I used to measure the distance from the face to the studs to get an idea if how many shims to use on each one.
You can see there is a gap from the tub to the face that is pretty large.
I would also recommend the reinforcement plate while it's apart. I bet 75% of the lower studs crack at the pan.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596813998.jpg

Thanks for the pic. THe issue with my current setting is that the spring arm is quite a bit away from mating to the swing arm. It seems it has to go in further to get a good alignment with the swing arm. could you measure the bushing in relationship with the threaded stubs?
We have sent our bushings out to machinge 5.5mm to allow the flange to seat against the chassis.

A very nostalgic bump for one of the better what/how/why 930 suspension threads I fond on the forums....

I have a ROW '85 930 I picked up a year or so ago, lower miles, still what I believe to be all original suspension. Nothing blatantly worn or loose, but so worthy of an upgrade. It will see virtually no track time (I have a somewhat modified 996 Turbo as my track day car), but want to sharpen her canyon skills a bit.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1733712955.jpg

Aww shucks. Thanks for bubbling the back up! 11 years years later and I’m still enjoying the car and this suspension. No regrets.
And welcome to the air-cooled side of the forum.