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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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What type of CYLINDER HEADS are these? Can I use them?

I picked up some interesting items a few years back from a fellow who tracked 934/5 racecars in vintage racing. One of the items was a set of heads.
I have the bug (badly) to modify the gray ghost and would like to use these heads if possible.

What do I have here?
The intake and exhausts ports are hogged out to 42mm, twin plug, and flame ringed. Can these be used on a "normal" 930 engine?
What do the numbers stamped on the castings tell you of the origin? I assume they are normal 930 heads that have been modified.

Any help appreciated! Thanks!








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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 08-25-2013, 12:16 PM
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I can't tell you the origin, but it is interesting that the exhaust valve guides are huge and ribbed at the top for cooling, and have the oiling modification done to them.
Old 08-25-2013, 01:16 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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I wondered about that, these heads are curious to me as I am used to dealing with stock.
The thought was to port my existing heads and then I remembered having these hidden away. If I can use them that would be great!
What do you think the huge ports and valves will do to the engine characteristics? We've ported the exhaust side before for a nice bump but not the intake side.
Next question; if I can use these heads where is the best place to purchase the correct valves?
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 08-25-2013, 02:04 PM
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They are 935 style exhaust guides. For a street car I would use standard guides so that seals can be used and do not drill the guide for extra oil. Do they have 12mm or 14mm spark plug threads? Most factory race heads had 12mm. are there any numbers stamped by the intake port flanges?
Old 08-25-2013, 02:35 PM
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Brian, contact Xtreme Cylinder Heads in FL for the valves.

My heads are ported there and he also made room for bigger valves. Great work and service.
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1979 930: Garret GT35r turbo, EFI, carerra intake, Link EMS, custom GT2 cams, 98mm JE P/C, 964 crank (stroker), custom valves & ported (XtremeCylinderHeads) etc..etc..
1972 914-6 GT replica project
Sold: 1978 930, LSD, K27 7200 turbo, SC cams,etc
Old 08-25-2013, 02:37 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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My thoughts were to send my existing heads to Xtreme, and then I remembered having these.

What is the disadvantage or issue with the 935 guides and oil mod for the street?
Spark plug holes take standard 930 plugs.

Good info, thank you all.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 08-25-2013, 03:21 PM
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Course if you do that you'll need to fab up some 1 3/4 headers.
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:53 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Not with this build Ken. Yours is EFI big-dog, mine stays CIS. Primary size for my purposes needs to stay the same size as the exhaust ports, which is 1 5/8" in this case. Going bigger will give up velocity for me but could choke HP for you.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 08-25-2013, 05:04 PM
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Those look identical and have the same number (minus K vs X) that I can see as my Carrera 3.2 heads.

My car is an 87 but 86 is on the head. I bet those are 87 or 88 Carreras.

Last edited by Tippy; 08-25-2013 at 05:52 PM..
Old 08-25-2013, 05:50 PM
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same numbers...

as my Carrera heads also. I have some 42mm cis injector blocks if needed. Philip
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Old 08-25-2013, 06:08 PM
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Looks like you'll have to send cylinders with those heads to have the flame ring groove properly cut into the cylinders so they match up and work right with those heads without leaking.
The hemi combustion chamber may be set up for 95mm bore cylinders and if it is you have to have a 1mm bevel cut all the way around the edge to use them on 97mm cylinders on your 3.3

Xtreme cylinder heads down here in S. Florida is the best place to have all the head work done.

42mm intake ports is pretty big for a CIS street car I think but I don't know.
You might be better off selling those heads and having your origonal heads redone by Xtreme. Bill is a great guy.
Xtreme Cylinder Heads And Castings
Old 08-25-2013, 06:37 PM
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"What do you think the huge ports and valves will do to the engine characteristics?"

I am no expert Brian, but I would have thought the big ports won't help your pre boost air speed. Another way of saying more lag than what you would have on a stock head.
Given that the big heads will be on a mild(not race car) CIS set up and relatively small turbo, you may well be better off with small mods to your stock heads.
Then again , they may be fine.
Hope someone that knows more than I can help.
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:21 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Those are my thoughts as well. Slapping a set of big heads on my engine might do more harm than good. What I was thinking before digging these out was to enlarge and smooth my existing exhaust ports in a similar manner as what Jim did. Cut away all the extra material and smooth it all out to a 42mm opening. Header primaries would match that bore. The idea is quick boost and a big torque curve while keeping stock redline. I'm entertaining twin turbos as I really want to do a CIS twin turbo build just to compare with exisiting single turbo data.

These gutted heads also came with ITB's and high hats for connecting to twin turbo intercoolers. The ITB's are CIS. No idea what the engine this stuff went on was putting out but it sure looks to have potential!
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 08-25-2013, 08:04 PM
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Using 935 guides can lead to higher oil consumption and smoke on startup.
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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That is not too surprizing as I look at how this oil spigot is machined into the head.
Doesn't look like these are a good idea for my purpose.
Thank you all for the information, it is very appreciated!
I've been asked to post pictures of the CIS ITB's. They are burried in my pile 'o crap as well and I'll have to dig them out but will do that. They are interesting looking.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 08-26-2013, 04:07 AM
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Instead of obsessing over how to put lipstick on a pig just give up swallow hard and swap it to EFI while you have it apart. I had everything tuned correctly perfect AFR's and still broke all the rings with CIS/POS.
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88 turbo Guards red Targa slant nose, and yes I am a horsepower junkie, Boost freak,Boob freak,
k-27hfs, 3.4liter,7.5 to 1 JE pistons,SSC cams,Adjustable WUR,Imagine fuel head, 1 bar waste gate headers,allthe cis toys. Now apart to become the next EFI monster.
05 Cayenne S lapis blue
Old 08-26-2013, 08:35 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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I've seen way too many EFI nightmares to even consider it. If I did the only way would be DIY and I have no time for that. 400-450 ft/lb of torque is quite enough for me anyway so all is good. No reason the rings should be damaged unless something was off.

Last edited by RarlyL8; 08-26-2013 at 01:56 PM..
Old 08-26-2013, 01:53 PM
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Yeah i guess i am just so done with EFI and there are plenty of people here in south florida that have made MS-2 and 3 work.
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88 turbo Guards red Targa slant nose, and yes I am a horsepower junkie, Boost freak,Boob freak,
k-27hfs, 3.4liter,7.5 to 1 JE pistons,SSC cams,Adjustable WUR,Imagine fuel head, 1 bar waste gate headers,allthe cis toys. Now apart to become the next EFI monster.
05 Cayenne S lapis blue
Old 08-26-2013, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
I've seen way too many EFI nightmares to even consider it. If I did the only way would be DIY and I have no time for that. 400-450 ft/lb of torque is quite enough for me anyway so all is good. No reason the rings should be damaged unless something was off.
Brian, as I was reading this, I was thinking as Ken posted above. You have good heads, capitalize on them.

I'll be the 1st to give you my tune for MegaSquirt that would have you running in minutes as others here would too I bet.

Don't listen to what others have said about MegaSquirt of the past, they've come along ways. With SMT components, they are solid.

The nightmares I believe have disappeared from the first gen days.

I believe nightmares is a harsh word, rather learning curves.....

Or try AEM and use Chris' work of art harness which I believe is plug and play for your car. There's a plethora of EMS's out there.

Last edited by Tippy; 08-26-2013 at 07:01 PM..
Old 08-26-2013, 06:57 PM
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Plus, it's a lot of fun doing the conversion.......

At least I think so.

Rarlyl8, you could probably have the heads flow benched and use the flow data to have a custom set of cams ground to maximize those big valves and ports.

Just curious. What is the diameter of those cylinder heads?
Old 08-26-2013, 07:12 PM
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:12 PM
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