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7.0:1 > 11.3:1
 
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Thanks for posting that info Chris. It's interesting that the NA platform motor kicks the TT motor. I wonder if porsche used conservative cams in the TT like the 930 had vs. the SC.
Old 10-25-2013, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
What box you have clutch-monkey?
915 box in front of a 3.6. looks like even on low boost its days would be numbered!
Old 10-25-2013, 09:26 PM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Oh yeah! It'd be aluminum, steel, and gear oil soup. I thought you had a 964 or 993 which apparently have tough boxes.
Old 10-25-2013, 09:53 PM
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I am currently running a low boost twin turbo set up on my 93 3.6. Biggest problem has been the tuning as I was trying to avoid going to a standalone EMS, but will have to in order to get the true performance from the car. However, as it is, worth the effort.
Wished I could have boxed it up and send to Chris, as these guys can get every ounce of performance from these cars.
Sheriong
Old 10-26-2013, 09:25 AM
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7.0:1 > 11.3:1
 
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Sheriong why don't you tell us more about your set up. These conversions aren't exactly common. Did you drop compression ratio or leaving it stock, custom headers for TT set up? Intercooled?
Old 10-26-2013, 09:39 AM
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Jim2
I have not made any changes to the internals thus the low boost, but am running an intercooler which I had build locally. I probably spent a little more on the exhaust than I had to, because I did not have a local fabricator earlier and ended up using 993 TT headers, but you can actually build a true custom exhaust cheaper.
If on the fence, I would say jump in and go for it, especially if you can wrench.

Sheriong
Old 10-26-2013, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Resale be damned, a turbocharged 964 or 993 3.6L is a fantastic, awesome engine with an enormous power band. Quiet valvetrain, smooth, responsive, durable. Sure, quite a bit of fabrication, but what's not to love about the results?
365whp/370wtq @ 0.5bar
450whp/460wtq @ 0.9bar
520whp/550wtq @ 1.2bar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Upgrade all the rubber connectors between the manifold pieces, plus brackets to keep the manifold from popping up and popping apart.

The intercooler mounts to a plate which also serves to hold the manifolds together, plus provide a mount for engine sensors, idle motor, boost solenoid valve, relays, etc...

Tested at pressures over 1.5bar on race fuel, no problems thus far.
what would be involved for a 0.5BAR budget minimalist version? i have the exhaust side of things covered, and can figure out intercooler and piping and oil scavenge pump.
but then with the intake manifold and tuning i'm lost!
Old 10-26-2013, 04:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
7.0:1 > 11.3:1
 
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Clutch, regarding the intake manifold there are enough random tabs protruding from the intake manifold you can tie the left and right halves together and create some brackets to hold the manifolds down onto the plastic risers which are bolted to the heads. I ran for a while without anything but every once in a while the left and right halves would pop apart at 6 psi. My car is a 95 993 which used the plastic intake, but I ditched it this summer in lieu of an alum intake from a 964 which I could weld onto to make hold downs and also make a number of other mods.

edit: Clutch, you might try and find out what the supercharger kit guys do for efi fuel mods. I believe they use a re-mapped stock ecu and run up to 8 psi/ .5 bar. Beware though, detonation is a huge issue with stock compression ratio, and pump fuel.

I'm not literate with tuning or altering the stock injection, I used aftermarket efi.





You can see a tang beside the left and right central hose clamps which could be used to secure the halves together with a flat strap. On the alum intake one tang is missing so you'd have to have one welded on.



Plastic and aluminum manifolds are the same shape, tangs in nearly identical locations. 1990 964 is aluminum, 1995 993 black plastic.

Last edited by Jim2; 10-26-2013 at 05:40 PM..
Old 10-26-2013, 05:33 PM
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Thanks for the input, all of you!
Chris - do you sell any of the hard parts separately? (exhaust pieces to mount GT35R, intercooler and associated bits etc)
I'm not especially worried about resale value, though it's a good point - my car is poorly documented and 'driver quality'.

Nathan
Old 10-26-2013, 05:35 PM
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thanks jim - myself and a friend looking at this both have 964 3.6's, and would be using aftermarket ECU (i was going to do a mafless tune anyway til i read this thread..)
not worried about resale - never selling
Old 10-26-2013, 06:49 PM
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sheriong;

One viable solution :
MSD 6BTM (manual ) or digital 6 AL-2 (user programable) will work with boost ignition retarding controller all around $500-600 and minimal fuss... look into it
http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Ignitions/Street/Strip/Analog/6462_-_MSD_6-BTM_Boost_Timing_Master.aspx
MSD Digital Programmable 6AL-2 - 6530
Hope this helps....Later.
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Old 10-27-2013, 03:59 AM
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Thanks Guru. Was looking at possibly AEM, as they are some tuners here in the Houston area, but will certainly review.
How easy is the mating of the 964 harness to megasquirt?
Is it a direct plug in or do you need to cut the harness and make some connections as is with the AEM Series 2?

BTW - Is the Control unit Pin Assignment for a Tiptronic in the Technical Data guideline applicable to a manual C2?

Sheriong
Old 10-27-2013, 11:48 AM
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Sheriong

Unless you plan on +650hp and MAP, i would not mess with an aftermarket ECU.

Megasquirt 2.25 or later will work fine but the OEM Motronic 2.1 on the 964 & 993 is an excellent DME. Better than the Motronic 3.1 on the 3.2L or the 944 Turbo S. Just that people are not knowledgable about it. Been programming and working on it for 2 years and intergrated my Bosch MAF on my 944s Clubsport. picked up +45 hp with a chip and MAF Wow!

MSD6BTM or Digital 6Al2 and a chip maybe all you really need...
PM Me if you have any specific issues...

Later...
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1987 Buick Turbo-T Lightweight "Great White", +500HP, TA49 Turbo.
http://www.blackbirdmotorsports.com, 944/951/968 & 911 Performance Solutions.
Thank you Lord, for your Loving Kindness, Tender Mercy, and Grace. Only You are Faithful.
Old 10-27-2013, 12:11 PM
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Digital Programmable 6AL2, PN 6530
Features

Advanced PC programming for use on street/strip and track cars
PC Programmable with easy-to-use Windows based Pro-Data +Software
Plot a timing curve based on boost pressure down to a 0.1 every 100 rpm
Program three rev limits in 100 rpm increments
Step retard for nitrous applications plus a boost timing map
Capacitive Discharge technology for high voltage and spark energy

Another great feature is for the forced induction fans. The ignition features a timing curve based on boost so you can map out a timing curve based on boost pressure. The feature that most street guys will dig is the ability to pull timing out during the holeshot – and ramp it back in. Since many cars have more power than traction capabilities, being able to soften the power at the holeshot can help reduce the tire shredding off the line.

For less than 1/4 the cost of a AEM upgrade and 1/2 of a Megasquirt 2.25 or newer.
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2006 955 Cayenne S Titanium Series - Marine Blue, 1987 Porsche 944S Club Sport.
1987 Buick Turbo-T Lightweight "Great White", +500HP, TA49 Turbo.
http://www.blackbirdmotorsports.com, 944/951/968 & 911 Performance Solutions.
Thank you Lord, for your Loving Kindness, Tender Mercy, and Grace. Only You are Faithful.
Old 10-27-2013, 12:17 PM
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Yeah, that box is sweet. Read up on it when it came out. Very useful and the 930 guys should latch on to it.

I should have posted before but forgot.
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:47 PM
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[QUOTE=TurboKraft;7720967]Resale be damned, a turbocharged 964 or 993 3.6L is a fantastic, awesome engine with an enormous power band. Quiet valvetrain, smooth, responsive, durable. Sure, quite a bit of fabrication, but what's not to love about the results?
365whp/370wtq @ 0.5bar
450whp/460wtq @ 0.9bar
520whp/550wtq @ 1.2bar



(budget minimalist version for track)


"Resale be damned"...works well if your running a negative return business or a hobby shop.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:16 PM
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Was that post needed? Geez. Chris is a huge asset to this site, let's not bite the hand that feeds us.

Anyways, to alter factory EFI to handle low boost, you can go old school by:

1. MSD Boost Timing Master to retard timing as many degrees per PSI of boost (ignition retard is covered)

2. BEGI FPR that raises fuel pressure per PSI of boost by a ratio like 3 to 4:1 IIRC. So for every pound of boost, your fuel pressure rises 3 to 4 extra PSI over base static pressure (covers fuel side)

This should work for the 964's, the 993's using MAF may not be as straight forward?

Last edited by Tippy; 10-30-2013 at 05:41 AM..
Old 10-30-2013, 05:37 AM
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No worries, my skin's a little thicker than that. :-)

Maybe this is clearer to my point:

Build the car for you, not for the next person who's going to own it.

You paint your house the color you want it -- you're the one living there, right?
You modify the car as you want -- you're the one driving and enjoying it.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:46 AM
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Coming from that guy I wouldn't put much weight in it..
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3.3 with ported heads,964 cams,3.2 manifold, Haltech EFI,WTA intercooler,BW366,Fabspeed headers,TIAL gate and ARP studs other than that it's completly stock.
Old 10-30-2013, 03:16 PM
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I wonder if the "sport ECU program" hit the ACT limit. The power curve looks very abnormal. I think this should be considered.

The 993TT cam has much higher lift than the 930 (11.6mm intake).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
Thanks for posting that info Chris. It's interesting that the NA platform motor kicks the TT motor. I wonder if porsche used conservative cams in the TT like the 930 had vs. the SC.
Old 10-30-2013, 07:34 PM
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