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Brando
 
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Quote:
... or you could save a lot of money weight and fuss and just buy a turbo designed for an air cooled engine.
It would save a lot of fuss no doubt.

"Sorry to hear you're upset with board as I would be too."

I'm not upset with the board at all. I'm very happy with knowledge I've learned here. I'm upset with myself not doing due diligence, reading what the factory had to say etc.
sorry if I sound bitter, I'm really not. I do think this information is important though.

Last edited by quattrorunner; 11-10-2013 at 11:15 AM..
Old 11-10-2013, 11:10 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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I will tell you this; every single turbo manufacturer I've read has been blamed one time or another for poor quality.

I'd say most failures are from oiling issues or outright abuse like not letting turbo cool down after a hard run or two.
Old 11-10-2013, 11:54 AM
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I wonder how much heat a heat exchanger plumbed to the turbo would give off. If your headers don't have heater boxes...........just thinking out loud here.


I've been looking at dirt bike and shifter cart radiators for cooling a gt3582r. They don't seem too expensive and would probably fit in the wheel well easily. IF you need a small pump, bosch makes a very nice compact magnetic drive coolant pump that draws very little amperage.
Old 11-10-2013, 04:45 PM
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The fuzz factor, that is often what it is about...

I might be completely wrong, but it don't think you can get a K27 that is as responsive as Quattro could display in the YouTube video he posted a little while back.
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Carrera 3.0 1975
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Old 11-10-2013, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Really? I cannot imagine such a thing. You hand a new turbo to Jonny Riceburner who slaps it on with no reguard to oiling specs and it blows as soon as the car starts up. That could bankrupt you pretty quick! Power to AUS if they can do that and not have turbo pricing go through the roof.

Bottom line for me on turbo spool-up is the RPM at 1.0bar boost. We see it at 2700rpm with the common K27-7200. With a J-pipe the 7200 spools to 1.0bar by 3100rpm. The supporting engine and exhaust work is what drives the last 400rpm down. Can any other turbo capable of supporting 375whp do significantly better than that AND last 100,000 miles?
If so I'm all ears.
Its not as easy as that

Example. riceburner blows up turbo and tskes it back to seller, seller can see that turbo was starved of oil so warranty is not covered,
Backup is not automatically given blindly without questioning from the seller to the buyer,


And If ithey cant repair it and offered replacement but say you wanted it in same colour but they no longer had same colour you could get back the full purchase price from the prev 12 months cool hey

Warranty works for people in oz who use it fairly
Warranty is like a Fair use policy , if you use it properly it will be covered because a well made Turbo will not blow up if used to manufacturers specs, So yes if the turbo you buy is capable of said hp, then they will cover 12 month minimunm warranty on that turbo.

Its like you Buy a NEW Porsche, it comes with a Warranty
And if in the first 10000 miles the turbo blows up and you have had the car in for regular servicing then Porsche will foot the bill,


But at least you get peace of mind if something stuffs up and its not your fault just take it back and get it repaired or replaced, least you know your getting quality and something that manufacturers stand by or theyre out of business,

A not so good Turbo will only last a year or two therefore no one in Oz will sell you one and if it hasnt got a warranty we dont buy it simple as that, and that goes for every product

Just did a search heres a company with warranties on all their Turbos
they will also delieer it for free

Auto Powerhouse Online Auto-parts

Old 11-10-2013, 06:11 PM
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Brando
 
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Ok. Just for fun I've compiled a pro cons list for the gt30r, s256, and hx35. All seem to be the front runners.
Gt3076r
Pros:
I already have the lines worked out.
It's a quick spooler
No surprises
Cons:
Pricey
Needs water lines and cooling system implemented
S256
Pros:
Great turbo (more overall power potential even though I'll never use it)
Affordable
Rebuild able
No water cooling
Cons:
T4 housing (needs something to fit it to my exhaust)
New lines for feed and drain
A little slower to respond to throttle.
Odd v band sizes? Needs some adaptation maybe. Not sure.
Heavy compared to Garrett
Hx35
Pros:
Affordable
Sounds like its a great responding journal bearing turbo(again I'm going off what others have said, haven't seen any real data yet).
Rebuild able.
No water cooling
Reliable turbo
T3
Cons:
New oil feed and drain
Response can't be as good as the Garrett but I still don't really know. It's a guess.
Uses a waste gate manifold, needs to have it closed.
Looks bigger but I'm not sure.
Looks heavy but I don't know.
Lots of going off what others have said. No test data that I've seen yet.

These all make an almost equal choice for me.
The Garrett seems like a good choice though more expensive and complicated with the water cooling system.

And why not the k27?
It should also be on the list but I wouldn't want a used one and a new one is too pricey.
Anything I'm missing?
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Old 11-10-2013, 07:01 PM
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You can get the S256 in T3.
Old 11-10-2013, 07:02 PM
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Brando
 
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Hmm

Well that changes it a little. I couldn't find it. You sure it wasn't the more performance oriented unit?
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Old 11-10-2013, 07:06 PM
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Add up all the costs and time to implement a turbo not designed for air cooled engine use and the K27 becomes afordable. Blow up a couple make-to-fit turbos and the K27 becomes downright cheap.

I really wish I had my GoPro when the Red Rocket was around. That K27 setup could run with any conventional single turbo I've ever seen or tested. The 915 makes things a bit deceiving due to gearing so you have to take that into consideration. I don't have a K27 in the Gray Ghost yet but one is one the shelf waiting, plug and play.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattrorunner View Post
Hx35
Lots of going off what others have said. No test data that I've seen yet.


And here's Holset HX40 Super vs GT3076R on 2JZ:

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Old 11-10-2013, 11:37 PM
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Thanks for all the information

Let us assume a fairly stock 3.3 with sc cams upgraded IC. In short, the usual bolt-ons.
I am aiming for about 400whp and prefer responsiveness over max hp.

I have been on this website trying to understand the different parameters, not quite there yet.

BorgWarner MatchBot

It seems, if going the BW route, an S300 would be the best option.

Edit: please elaborate more on the dual chamber boost control




Quote:
Originally Posted by Raceboy View Post
How much power are you after? That would be the first guideline to the turbo choice (as always), but trick with Holsets is that they are not very effective at boost pressures below 1 bar so there is no point in running a HX50 at 0.7 bar for example.

For 3.0 (with stock internals) I would choose HX35 (12cm2 divided turbine) or HE341 (9cm2 undivided turbine, newer version of HY35 found on 2002-2004 RAM Cummins CR engines). These put out easy 400+ hp @ 1+bar. Spools full boost @ 2700-3000 rpm.

For built 3.0 or 3.3 with more hp in mind, HX40 (and 7blade) with 16cm2 turbinehousing is a proven choice and supports 600+ hp @ 1.4-1.5 bars of boost. Full boost avaliable @ ~3000 rpm.

Note: boost treshold can be significantly reduced with dual-chamber electronic boost control, stock 930 wastegate is very good at that btw.
Also spool characteristics depend on max boost target unless you are using twin-chamber control.
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Last edited by jsveb; 11-11-2013 at 11:32 AM..
Old 11-11-2013, 08:27 AM
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Dual chamber boost control is basically when wastegate bottom chamber have the boost reference line directly from intake manifold (it is plumbed like this in stock configuration) and you route second line to the upper chamber and put a boost control solenoid for that.
This way the wastegate can stay completely shut until boost target has been reached which means that boost will build quicker.
Without it, the wastegates start opening already at pressures ~1/3 of target, causing the boost to build up slower and higher.

Control of the solenoid has to be good, because it is easy to get overshoots (when PID algorithm is not tuned correctly). Also the boost solenoid has to have a port configuration where it stays shut when unpowered. This is due to safety.
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:44 PM
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I've made some choices. I'm trying to get it set up as quickly as I can. I'll post updates soon as I can. Hopefully finished and video of performance. It's not Garrett, though I will go back if this turbo doesn't work like I think it will.
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Old 11-11-2013, 11:03 PM
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Tell us more, Quit the suspense
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:31 AM
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Brando
 
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Alright,
I got a good used holset hx35. There are some unknowns for me still, but should be workable. Size is still an unknown as I don't know of a 930 with holset yet so it's kind of a shot in the dark.
Also, this thing will be heavier than the Garrett, and this weight is as far back as it can be on our cars, not good.
Weight is a big deal to me, I just swapped a carrera tail with rubber for a all fiberglass tail with not much change in weight. I will be going glass bumpers and trying as best I can to keep weight down while keeping it comfortable for road trips.
I attribute much of my cars performance to low weight and that's free performance.
That being said, I don't want more weight, but will check it out.......
This is a study for me, I still like the Garrett and if for any reason I don't like any aspect of this turbo be it weight, size, even looks.....I'll just swap back to Garrett and add water cooling, but only after some comparisons.
I never took the car to the dyno so they'll be comparisons that will only mean something to me and my a$$, sorry. But I'll describe what I find as best I can for reference.
I'm waiting for the turbo and will take pics when I get it in my hands.
I may start a thread about it separately.
Thanks to raceboy for his help teaching me quickly the right holset for the job.
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:53 AM
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Awesome, thanks.

Looking forward to following your progress.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:00 AM
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Cool, another Holset'er. Curious if you will like or not when all said and done.

My HX40 (58mm) out spools the hell out of the 60-1 HiFi (60mm) I had but it took a few more pounds of boost to equal same peak hp by butt dyno.
Old 11-12-2013, 10:07 AM
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Brando
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
Cool, another Holset'er. Curious if you will like or not when all said and done.

My HX40 (58mm) out spools the hell out of the 60-1 HiFi (60mm) I had but it took a few more pounds of boost to equal same peak hp by butt dyno.
You have one too?
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:16 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Yessir
Old 11-12-2013, 06:09 PM
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Brando
 
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Yessir
So how big is it? Is it heavy compared to other turbos it similar? How does it spool?
Old 11-12-2013, 08:04 PM
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