Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Smart quod bastardus
 
fredmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 2,232
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsveb View Post
Dammit Quattro. It is never easy is it.

Somebody mentioned installing a filter prior to the scavenge pump. I believe the usual mod. is to install a filter past the pump. However, your scenario is a clear indication that a filter prior to the pump could help in some situations.

Now to the question I hope some of the guys can answer. Would it be a good idea to installs a filter between the drip tank and the pump. In other words can the scavenge pump suck the oil through a filter?
Generally not recommended practice.
But if you could get a filter with large mesh size >150 micron or more this would cut down on the restriction to the inlet of the turbo drain pump. This would stop large chunks over 150 microns from reaching the pump gears.
Then you would put a fine screen filter after the pump outlet to filter small coke particles from reaching the oil sump tank.
That sux.

Fred
__________________
1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 11-27-2013, 09:24 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #161 (permalink)
Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 5,999
Garage
Thanks guys, I got the dowel out with some heat. Not a lot but while hot I drove the pin out. Used aluminum block with hole made for this "project".
McFadden dale has the dowel and I'm on my way down to get it. I'll have it running tonight!!!!
I'm going to flush the intercooler, the oil lines, and whatever else I can imagine was involved in this nightmare.
I used a sanding dick on the gears, they're pretty chewed up but functional for this purpose I assume. We'll see if it doesn't draw enough oil out.
__________________
Turbo powa!
1977 911s. it's cool
Old 11-27-2013, 09:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #162 (permalink)
Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 5,999
Garage
I repaired the pump, reinstalled it and started the engine and got smoked out. Wow what a smokescreen. Took off the pump to look, looked good, removed the line on the drip tank and it seemed to be sucking but when I put the line in a big cup and drained into same cup the turbo drain overwhelmed the pump. Look at the video.

As I let the engine run up to temp, I would empty into the oil tank with a oil jug occasionally to let the pump catch up.
So the scavenge pump doesn't work well enough.
This brings me to a fork in the road.
A) do I get a new scavenge pump?
B) do I just get another Garrett chra and use this pump? It would be fine with the Garrett I'm sure.
I want to try this turbo out but it seems the odds are stacking against me.
Unless someone has an extra pump they'd let me try out for a while.

What are the opinions for me?
Should I source another pump?
Would my pump even work with a Garrett?
Should I just quit screwing around and get the Garrett chra and be done? I already know I'm happy with it.
I just don't know.
__________________
Turbo powa!
1977 911s. it's cool

Last edited by quattrorunner; 12-02-2013 at 08:52 AM..
Old 11-27-2013, 09:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #163 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rockwall, Texas
Posts: 8,761
Brando, you're confident that there isn't one of the ball bearings in the suction line? If so, I don't know what to tell you regarding replacing the pump or not. If this were mine, I would want to replace it, but daaayyyyuuuum they are not cheap, are they? I just looked on eBay, and the only one I saw was listed for almost five bills for a used one! I know you dressed the damaged one up with a file, but it sure would be a good idea to replace it if at all possible.
Old 11-27-2013, 09:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #164 (permalink)
Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 5,999
Garage
Yeah I cleaned the suction line out.
I didn't check the fuel meter flapper because the my air filter is up against the compartment and won't come off without dropping the engine a little.
Still don't know what took out the turbo and may never know that.
__________________
Turbo powa!
1977 911s. it's cool
Old 11-27-2013, 10:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #165 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 971
Can you gravity drain your turbo?
Old 11-28-2013, 12:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #166 (permalink)
 
newbie
 
timspu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Devon. UK
Posts: 218
Garage
I had a similar issue when i replaced my 3LDZ with a K27-7200.
After starting the car and let it idle smoke bellowed out of the exhaust and residual oil was seen on the turbo.
I disconnected the scavenge line from the drip tank and also noted that it was not scavenging, so the turbo was filling with oil. I connected a hand squeaze pump inline with the scavenge line and a container of oil. With the engine running i applied small pressure to the scavenge line to prime it and it then started scavenging. Quickly connected the scavenge line back onto the drip tank and all was good. No smoke and no drips from the Turbo.

Hope my experience helps,of priming the line helps.

Good luck

TIM
Old 11-28-2013, 01:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #167 (permalink)
Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 5,999
Garage
Hey I'm going to try that.
Old 11-28-2013, 05:58 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #168 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,726
I gravity drain, so not sure what the scavenge flow should look like, but that looks really adequate based on the size of the pressure side nozzle diameter??
Old 11-28-2013, 06:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #169 (permalink)
Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 5,999
Garage
OK, it's been an interesting evening.
To start, I installed a pump some cool dude lent me. It also was out flowed, though better than my pump. I'd say mine would be fine if I had the right size restrictor. So I hammered the hole smaller
Replaced the restrictor and started it back up. It worked, no more smoke. I replaced everything I could remember that might be undone and went for a ride. Boost was nearly as quick as the Garrett but not the same. I still didn't have the response I was used to. Here is a little video of my adventure.

I didn't set out loOKing for a fight, it just happened.
And then after this

I'd say that was a stock Z06 but I just didn't have what I usually have. Didn't really have time to look at gauges, my drive was a little quick tonight. But it was nice to get back into the old girl. Even still she did OK I guess.
I had no more boost.
After all is said and done, even with it boosting, it didn't feel and sound the same. I like the Garrett. I'm still going to try and figure out what's wrong with the Holset, but it just didn't have the snap I have come to enjoy. The Garrett has a whip snapper feel to it. This turbo felt OK. I'll give more feedback once I drive more but I'm a little bummed out that I have no boost. I mean zero boost. It drives NA style.
Whats up wit dat?
__________________
Turbo powa!
1977 911s. it's cool
Old 12-02-2013, 10:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #170 (permalink)
Turbonut
 
Raceboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Estonia, Europe
Posts: 1,060
Garage
This usually means disconnected hose somewhere.

Regarding boost response and power, Holset does not work well on pressures below 1 bar, they begin to shine at ~1.0 bar +. When you up the boost, it will come in sooner and stronger.
__________________
'83 924 2.5 16v Turbo, 530hp @ 1.5bar
'67 911 widebody hot-rod /2.4S
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
Old 12-02-2013, 11:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #171 (permalink)
Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 5,999
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raceboy View Post
This usually means disconnected hose somewhere.

Regarding boost response and power, Holset does not work well on pressures below 1 bar, they begin to shine at ~1.0 bar +. When you up the boost, it will come in sooner and stronger.
I cant afford to boost higher than .8bar. It costs me exactly 915 every time.
__________________
Turbo powa!
1977 911s. it's cool

Last edited by quattrorunner; 12-02-2013 at 11:21 PM..
Old 12-02-2013, 11:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #172 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,726
My $0.02. I'm with Raceboy, these Holset's need to be wound up to make airflow. So, if you are down on power at 0.8-bar, turning it to 1.0 or whatever should be fine to get your power back.

If it makes the same power at 1.0 bar as the GT at 0.8, it should be fine and so will the 915.


FYI, going from 1.0 bar to 1.4 bar on my Holset HX40 did not raise the outlet temps at all from what I can tell from datalogs. I was quite surprised and pleased this occurred.
__________________
Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 12-03-2013, 01:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #173 (permalink)
Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 5,999
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
My $0.02. I'm with Raceboy, these Holset's need to be wound up to make airflow. So, if you are down on power at 0.8-bar, turning it to 1.0 or whatever should be fine to get your power back.

If it makes the same power at 1.0 bar as the GT at 0.8, it should be fine and so will the 915.


FYI, going from 1.0 bar to 1.4 bar on my Holset HX40 did not raise the outlet temps at all from what I can tell from datalogs. I was quite surprised and pleased this occurred.
Alright, but what does this say?
I need more boost for the same power?
I still need to plumb up my boost controller before I can try more boost.
Also, I found why I have no boost right now..it's the wastgate on the holset, It's not staying closed with my welds....
I'll re-weld tonight if I have time and report back.
Compare this run to the one last night in the second video. There are diffrences in sound(sorry I didn't catch the gauges) and performance.
__________________
Turbo powa!
1977 911s. it's cool
Old 12-03-2013, 01:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #174 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,726
Yes, turn up the boost until it runs like before. Of course only if you can monitor AFR's to ensure you're ok.
Old 12-03-2013, 04:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #175 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TurboKraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,547
Agreed, turn it up a little. Your engine is intercooled, and that's still a conservative boost pressure.

While turning up the boost won't make it come on sooner, welding up your exhaust leak will sure help! ;-)
__________________
Chris Carroll
TurboKraft, Inc.
Tel. 480.969.0911
email: info@turbokraft.com
http://www.facebook.com/TurboKraft - http://www.instagram.com/TurboKraft
Old 12-03-2013, 05:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #176 (permalink)
Turbonut
 
Raceboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Estonia, Europe
Posts: 1,060
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
While turning up the boost won't make it come on sooner, welding up your exhaust leak will sure help! ;-)
Actually it will because the wastegate will not begin to open so soon (with single port control, wastegates tend to begin to open at ~1/3 of the target pressure).
The stiffer the spring, the sooner it will wake up. This is the whole idea behind dual-chamber control, just with latter the wastegate spring stiffness is literally reduced when boost target has been reached.
__________________
'83 924 2.5 16v Turbo, 530hp @ 1.5bar
'67 911 widebody hot-rod /2.4S
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
Old 12-03-2013, 11:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #177 (permalink)
Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 5,999
Garage
Well the wg was still solidly welded.......
I removed all the hoses and clamps, realigned them and retightened all, then took a spin. Nothing, not one psi.
So I added pressure to the system with a compressor to listen/see and leaks and didn't see any.
Truly stumped I removed the compressor housing to see the wheel and it has marks. My inexperience says any marks at all are bad?
But should this keep the turbo from boosting? It still spins freely when the engine is off.
Marks don't look like matter marks but I don't know. Looks like scrapes on the compressor housing. Maybe it was off balance


I just feel this is addition to the no boost but maybe the shaft foes not turn with the engine on. It has almost no play at all. Brand new bearings.
__________________
Turbo powa!
1977 911s. it's cool

Last edited by quattrorunner; 12-04-2013 at 02:56 PM..
Old 12-04-2013, 12:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #178 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raceboy View Post
Actually it will because the wastegate will not begin to open so soon (with single port control, wastegates tend to begin to open at ~1/3 of the target pressure).
The stiffer the spring, the sooner it will wake up. This is the whole idea behind dual-chamber control, just with latter the wastegate spring stiffness is literally reduced when boost target has been reached.
He meant the factory Holset WG flapper, not the external.
__________________
Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 12-04-2013, 12:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #179 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,726
Dang Quattro, seems like one roadblock after another.

So when you rebuilt, there were no signs of contact between thecomp wheel and comp housing?

Only way this can occur (IMO) is if the shaft allowed a lot of movement (virtually impossible with new bearings) or the comp housing/cover wasn't squarely seated to CHRA cocking housing to contact wheel ever so slightly. Hmmm

GL on figuring out.
Old 12-04-2013, 05:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #180 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:52 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.