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Wastegate hammered




While continuing my re-build, I ran into this. It cleaned-up alright, but is it worth re-building it, or having it done; who re-builds them?
Diaphragm: 930-123-235-1R
Top housing: 930-123-215-6R
Base of housing: 930-123-214-1R
Spring- ?
The top housing also has the number: 24-12281
Is it just a matter of replacing the torn diaphragm and insuring the integrity of the housing? How can I identify the spring? Thank you!
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Old 11-17-2013, 02:26 PM
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the guide for the valve wore out on mine. it blows boost past the guide. it may even pull in air to create a vacuum leak. the problem is getting parts to rebuild them.
i just went and bought a tial. much smaller.

check with osi930. he has my old WG and may be trying to rebuild it. he may know what parts are out there.
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 11-17-2013, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T77911S View Post
the guide for the valve wore out on mine. it blows boost past the guide. it may even pull in air to create a vacuum leak. the problem is getting parts to rebuild them.
i just went and bought a tial. much smaller.

check with osi930. he has my old WG and may be trying to rebuild it. he may know what parts are out there.
I was wondering about the valve and its' guide. I'm really in unknown territory here. How does one decide on a WG? What size, model, etc?
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:16 PM
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tial 46mm

himandiracing.com has a good price on them.

i did a test on mine. i think i started with low pressure, maybe 10psi, then increased it. i could hear and feel air coming out of the exhaust pipe if i put my hand over it. keep putting pressure in up to the point just before it opens.
also pull a vacuum on the air chamber to check for leaks
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 11-18-2013, 03:21 AM
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shbop:

Pelican has a diaphragm upgrade kit for ~$170. look into it.

Later...
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Old 11-22-2013, 10:10 PM
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its a waste if the valve guide is bad
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 11-24-2013, 02:07 PM
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Tial F46 is a bolt-on replacement for 930 - first wastegate Tial ever designed/made. They do a versio with shaved fins, but the regular one is smaller than factory...

Himni Racing in FL offers the F46 the cheapest I've seen, shipped the specfied color/spring rate the next day - and upgraded shipping to express completely unasked and gratis, which was very nice of them. They seem to carry a lot of interesting forced induction bits'n'bobs...

TiAL 46mm External Waste Gate F46 TiAL 46mm External Waste Gate [tial wg 46mm] - $439.00 : Himni Racing, Turbocharger, Turbo, Garrett, Turbo Kit, GReddy, Mazda RX-7, HKS, Apexi, TiAL, TurboXS, TurboSmart, Flange, Turbonetics, Exhaust, Intercooler, AC
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'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 11-25-2013, 01:37 PM
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And it's Anerican made. That is a great price.
Old 11-25-2013, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuggy View Post
Tial F46 is a bolt-on replacement for 930 - first wastegate Tial ever designed/made. They do a versio with shaved fins, but the regular one is smaller than factory...

Himni Racing in FL offers the F46 the cheapest I've seen, shipped the specfied color/spring rate the next day - and upgraded shipping to express completely unasked and gratis, which was very nice of them. They seem to carry a lot of interesting forced induction bits'n'bobs...

TiAL 46mm External Waste Gate F46 TiAL 46mm External Waste Gate [tial wg 46mm] - $439.00 : Himni Racing, Turbocharger, Turbo, Garrett, Turbo Kit, GReddy, Mazda RX-7, HKS, Apexi, TiAL, TurboXS, TurboSmart, Flange, Turbonetics, Exhaust, Intercooler, AC
Thanks to everyone for the replies! Ended-up going the Tial F46 route with a .8 spring. Not only was my diaphragm shot, but the guide was gone as well. Hope I guessed right on the spring. I saw the Pelican parts guru944 mentioned, and was tempted to make a go of repairing my stock unit, but closer inspection showed other problems.
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuggy View Post
Tial F46 is a bolt-on replacement for 930 - first wastegate Tial ever designed/made. They do a versio with shaved fins, but the regular one is smaller than factory...

Himni Racing in FL offers the F46 the cheapest I've seen, shipped the specfied color/spring rate the next day - and upgraded shipping to express completely unasked and gratis, which was very nice of them. They seem to carry a lot of interesting forced induction bits'n'bobs...

TiAL 46mm External Waste Gate F46 TiAL 46mm External Waste Gate [tial wg 46mm] - $439.00 : Himni Racing, Turbocharger, Turbo, Garrett, Turbo Kit, GReddy, Mazda RX-7, HKS, Apexi, TiAL, TurboXS, TurboSmart, Flange, Turbonetics, Exhaust, Intercooler, AC
i got mine from them.
i tried to support a fellow pelican but never could get a hold of him. worked out better for me. $100 cheaper.

i went with the .8 spring too. with the header and exhaust i am getting .9 boost which is what i was wanting.
the only thing i did not like is the hose fittings on the WG are smaller than factory. what makes it a pain is the hose fitting on my IC is bigger so its hard to get the hose on and off the IC.
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 11-26-2013, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T77911S View Post
i got mine from them.
i tried to support a fellow pelican but never could get a hold of him. worked out better for me. $100 cheaper.

i went with the .8 spring too. with the header and exhaust i am getting .9 boost which is what i was wanting.
the only thing i did not like is the hose fittings on the WG are smaller than factory. what makes it a pain is the hose fitting on my IC is bigger so its hard to get the hose on and off the IC.
Thank you for the heads-up on the hose fittings!
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shbop View Post
Thanks to everyone for the replies! Ended-up going the Tial F46 route with a .8 spring. Not only was my diaphragm shot, but the guide was gone as well. Hope I guessed right on the spring. I saw the Pelican parts guru944 mentioned, and was tempted to make a go of repairing my stock unit, but closer inspection showed other problems.
Many moons ago someone posted info on having a machine shop craft a new valve guide, but darned if I can find it anymore. The guide and the diaphram are really all that fails these old WG's (well, there's also a high temp gasket - probably asbestos - between the upper and lower chambers that can leak over time). I was able to fix that leak, but the blow-by through the guide was making the WG act decidedly non-Porsche'ish. Tial was the ticket for me.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:34 AM
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mark houghton:

That's cool. PS: A valve guide can be pressed in at a good machine shop and epoxied as well...

Happy Thanks Giving.

Later...
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
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i tried to support a fellow pelican but never could get a hold of him. worked out better for me.
I tried to buy mine from a fellow Pelican too - if he'd had stock of a .5 bar spring F46 in black, I'd probably still have taken it. The reality is that Himni probably ship more gear on an average day to the import guys than most Porsche shops would in a good year, so there's obvious implications to that.

My factory wastegate was still working perfectly when removed; only went to the TiAL because I had a fitment issue with new headers - since the G50, everything moved back just far enough to give rise to clearance problems with the factory WG and the (smaller, rebuildable, arguably better materials/tech) TiAL fits...
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'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 11-27-2013, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guru944 View Post
mark houghton:

That's cool. PS: A valve guide can be pressed in at a good machine shop and epoxied as well...

Happy Thanks Giving.

Later...
My factory wastegate also had a worn valve guide that leaked badly. My solution was TIAL, like everyone else. Unless you have free machine shop labor, it's not cost effective to refurbish the OE wastegate. Once you replace the diaphragm, pay a machinist to do a valve guide, and fab a valve seat, the cost will exceed that of a brand new TIAL. Maybe makes sense if you're restoring for pebble beach concours...for a driver, not so much.
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:18 AM
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This is kind of like googling for medical conditions and then convincing yourself you have MS, but how do you know when the valve guide is leaking "too much"? I tested mine with an air compressor on the line from the intercooler, and I was getting some blowby but what is the spec and when is it too much?
Would it be delayed boost threshold b/c it's leaking past instead of being more binary closed/open?
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
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This is kind of like googling for medical conditions and then convincing yourself you have MS, but how do you know when the valve guide is leaking "too much"? I tested mine with an air compressor on the line from the intercooler, and I was getting some blowby but what is the spec and when is it too much?
Any boost leak is not desirable, I'd say..

Unless you're deliberately dumping it, that air should be in the manifold. Especially on a metered air system like CIS.

It should open at the specified pressure. A leak will cause air to escape through the valve and not open the wastegate - potential for overboosting.

A vacuum leak through the valve guide is also not a good thing. Mitivac.
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Old 11-27-2013, 02:02 PM
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In my case, the valve guide leaked so badly, I was only getting .5 bar boost in the manifold. You could hear mass quantities of air hissing.
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:39 PM
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T77911S-

I am considering this purchase as well.

What are the hose fitting sizes on the wastegate? The banjo bolt in your first photo appears to be M16 or M18. Are the Tial fittings done with Metric threads?

I have lots of Metric fittings & adapters so I may be able to help.

Len


Last edited by BoxsterGT; 11-30-2013 at 06:14 AM..
Old 11-30-2013, 06:11 AM
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Can someone measure the valve stem diameter for the wastegate valve? The reason I ask is that the guide looks just like a 911 exhaust valve guide on the cross section drawing that I have. If that is the case, it would be quite inexpensive to replace. It would also provide some wear limit info.
Old 12-02-2013, 06:49 AM
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