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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilonly View Post
Pushing in bottom plug with clamp slightly raises AFR's on a stock WUR ? Just making sure as i have read in other threads just the opposite.
Pushing in the bottom plug increases full throttle/full boost enrichment control pressure, and thus, leans the mixture. For example, if you have AFR readings of mid-high 9s (too rich - causes misfiring during full throttle acceleration), and push the plug in about 2mm, you will then see AFRs in the mid-high 11s (typically).

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 05-08-2014 at 05:59 PM..
Old 05-08-2014, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930 View Post
Pushing in the bottom plug increases full throttle/full boost enrichment control pressure, and thus, leans the mixture. For example, if you have AFR readings of mid-high 9s (too rich - causes misfiring during full throttle acceleration), and push the plug in about 2mm, you will then see AFRs in the mid-high 11s
Thanks Ronnie, yesterday i put one of my WURs back in the car after i pushed the bottom plug in about 2 mm. That made it too lean on boost. So i took it apart again and pushed it back out 1mm then put the whole thing back together again, not so bad really. Yes i want AFR in mid 11's on boost. Fun stuff by the way.
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:07 PM
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Yep, pretty fun once the tuning process is understood and then approached with a good attitude (can be frustrating making all of the repetitive adjustment and such). It took me a bit to understand K-Jet enough to confidently start fiddling with it, and people here helped me a lot.

Just out of curiosity, what were your full throttle AFRs prior to the 2mm "push in"?
Old 05-08-2014, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930 View Post
Yep, pretty fun once the tuning process is understood and then approached with a good attitude (can be frustrating making all of the repetitive adjustment and such). It took me a bit to understand K-Jet enough to confidently start fiddling with it, and people here helped me a lot.

Just out of curiosity, what were your full throttle AFRs prior to the 2mm "push in"?

I never used that WUR before Ronnie, bought it from a friend who's mechanic told him it was bad. I took it apart and started looking at it and with knowledge gained reading here i found out it had a clogged screen. Cleaned up the whole valve area put it back together but before that i decided to push that plug in to see what it would do, to far in. The WUR that was in my car AFR on boost was mid to low 10's. I took that one apart cleaned it up pushed the plug in 1mm so when i put that one back in i will see what 1mm pushed in does exactly. Will know this weekend when i drive the car.
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:39 PM
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when you guys are leaning boost AFR have any of you measured how it affects WOT high rpm AFR?
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Old 05-08-2014, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
when you guys are leaning boost AFR have any of you measured how it affects WOT high rpm AFR?
In my posts I was referring to WOT high rpm AFR - also known as full throttle enrichment. Is that what you are talking about?
Old 05-08-2014, 09:35 PM
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Im going to ask stupid question

How do you know/tell what your AFR is?
Is it a guage or something you buy?
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:50 PM
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Hi Robby - yep it is a meter/gauge that uses a wideband oxygen sensor, mounted in the exhaust (after the turbo), to measure the O2 content of the exhaust gasses and then translate that into a numeric, air-to-fuel ratio .

I have one of these, but there are many good ones on the market at very different costs (but like anything, the really good ones cost the most) -

LM-2 Wideband O2 Digital Air/fuel Ratio Meter

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 05-08-2014 at 10:20 PM..
Old 05-08-2014, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930 View Post
In my posts I was referring to WOT high rpm AFR - also known as full throttle enrichment. Is that what you are talking about?
In this post? "At anything below 10, on full boost, mine starts to misfire/bog down, and at 9.5-9 it misfires so terribly that it stops accelerating entirely."

When I tried to dial my WUR it was impossible to get linear AFR with the WUR boost plunger. It would always get lean very rapidly at over 5000 rpms. So yours stays rich even at higher rpms?
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Old 05-09-2014, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930 View Post
Hi Robby - yep it is a meter/gauge that uses a wideband oxygen sensor, mounted in the exhaust (after the turbo), to measure the O2 content of the exhaust gasses and then translate that into a numeric, air-to-fuel ratio .

I have one of these, but there are many good ones on the market at very different costs (but like anything, the really good ones cost the most) -

LM-2 Wideband O2 Digital Air/fuel Ratio Meter

Thanks for that Ronnie,

But Now ive just pushed out another bit of information to make room for the AFR info.!
These cars get treated like super modern marvels, over 35 yrs ago i reckon when they left the assembly line a German would sit there with a cigar and blow smoke iup thje exhaus, if no leaks car was good to go and tht ws it, they will run forever if left mostly stock.or if upgraded with original parts

sorry for typos cant see atm
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Old 05-09-2014, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
when you guys are leaning boost AFR have any of you measured how it affects WOT high rpm AFR?
I think when you push in the bottom cap to lean up boost you will have to turn the bottom WCP adjustment screw counter clockwise to lower the seat where the springs sit that hold the cap that holds the pin that pushes against the center spot in the top valve. Lowering that sring seat will let more fuel flow through the top WUR valve and richen. I could be wrong haven't had a chance to test drive today.
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Old 05-09-2014, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Robbbyg View Post
Thanks for that Ronnie,

These cars get treated like super modern marvels, over 35 yrs ago i reckon when they left the assembly line a German would sit there with a cigar and blow smoke iup thje exhaus, if no leaks car was good to go and tht ws it

sorry for typos cant see atm
???
What your saying is that porsche used a system that they guessed might would work?
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Old 05-09-2014, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
In this post? "At anything below 10, on full boost, mine starts to misfire/bog down, and at 9.5-9 it misfires so terribly that it stops accelerating entirely."

When I tried to dial my WUR it was impossible to get linear AFR with the WUR boost plunger. It would always get lean very rapidly at over 5000 rpms. So yours stays rich even at higher rpms?
I meant that any time I say (write ) "full throttle, or full boost enrichment" I am referring to WFO, high RPM. Yes, mine stays rich at high RPM
Old 05-09-2014, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Robbbyg View Post
These cars get treated like super modern marvels, over 35 yrs ago i reckon when they left the assembly line a German would sit there with a cigar and blow smoke iup thje exhaus, if no leaks car was good to go and tht ws it, they will run forever if left mostly stock.or if upgraded with original parts
Rob, it would have been pretty neat trick for Porsche to build such race winning machines, back in the day, by relying on the cigar smoke test!

Exhaust gas analyzers have been around a loooooooong time, and like most electronics, have been steadily improving, getting less expensive to buy, and becoming more available to the average Joe consumer.

I am no electronics ace or tuning guru, and was actually fairly intimidated by the whole "exhaust gas analysis" thing when I first learned of it, but once you try one of these things out, you really start to have some "ahhh haaaaa" moments, and their value and usefulness becomes clear. Also, they are fairly easy to understand and operate once you get your hands on with them (like Paul and Jacob like to do with each other ) !!!

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 05-09-2014 at 08:20 AM..
Old 05-09-2014, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by oilonly View Post
I think when you push in the bottom cap to lean up boost you will have to turn the bottom WCP adjustment screw counter clockwise to lower the seat where the springs sit that hold the cap that holds the pin that pushes against the center spot in the top valve. Lowering that sring seat will let more fuel flow through the top WUR valve and richen. I could be wrong haven't had a chance to test drive today.
Ok so after further looking at the WUR internals the two springs that push into the hat that push in to the pin that pushes into the metal disc that opens and closes the valve work independant of each other. But when you push in the bottom plug to lean boost you move both spring seats up and that compresses both springs so you have to relieve pressure on the inner WCP spring by adjusting the allen counter clockwise so as to lower pressur to richen the WCP back to where you want it. JMHO
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
when you guys are leaning boost AFR have any of you measured how it affects WOT high rpm AFR?
Yes smurf. Just got back from a road test after pushing in the bottom plug less than 1mm. AFR's on boost at around 5k before plug pushed in was 10.2 now 10.8.
spirited cruise before plug pushed in (less than 1mm) was 13.9 now 14.4. Next move will be to push in plug a little more to lean boost and i bet my cruise AFR goes even leaner. Then it will be time to turn back the bottom allen screw 1/4 turn counter clockwise to prevent further leaning on cruise. I am also plugging the hole in the bottom cap after doing the bottom allen adjust, don't think it should be opened to air. JMHO

Some pictures of the WUR apart




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Old 05-09-2014, 01:42 PM
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???
What your saying is that porsche used a system that they guessed might would work?
No not really im not,
More like they had a confidence in the machines and had to rely more on physical application for testing rather than computers it was the mid seventies, so i didnt think they would have the machines that many use today to tune them. , but someone has just written that testers have been around a long time, but i still cant see how they would have had any Advanced gizmos to test with thats all
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:27 PM
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So in tuning for rich for optimum boost
areas that contribute and need to be adjusted are

1 WUR adjust
2 Allen Key in Fuel Head adjust
3 Distributer Advancement/retardness

When driving on boost if an adfjustment is not correct what are some symptoms tha an avg joe could look out for besides a piston flying over his shoulder

missing?? surging ?
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:32 PM
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Fuel adjustments for boost:

1 - yes
2 - no - what you are referring to is the mixture adjuster for idle AFR (raises or lowers, very slightly, the height of the air metering arm when at idle). In theory, a change here should also affect boost, but the reality is that the effect is too insignificant to be considered a factor.
3 - yep - don't want too much ignition advance during boost since K-Jet/CIS doesn't use knock sensors, or anything else, to detect and compensate for detonation.

Symptoms of an overly rich, full throttle enrichment mixture are mid-high RPM misfiring . . . in other words, the engine hesitates/surges/stops accelerating (like you mentioned). It is nearly impossible to notice a lean condition without a meter, as the thing will run great, and I don't know how anyone "hears" detonation on these noisy, rear mounted engines (but some claim they have). I have a friend that added a supercharger to an otherwise stock Mercury Lincoln, and that MF detonated like crazy - made a very loud, popcorn popping, racket that was easy to hear since the engine was relatively quiet and mounted in front.

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 05-09-2014 at 10:03 PM..
Old 05-09-2014, 09:50 PM
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It is nearly impossible to notice a lean condition without a meter, as the thing will run great
Yes when i put in the first WUR that i modified the AFR on boost was 13 something and the car was fast as hell. I let off the gas though cause i didn't want to cause any damage.
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Old 05-10-2014, 06:20 AM
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