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Dang... I ordered two on Saturday for $280 shipped. Can't wait till they show up. Do I need fittings for both pumps or just the front pump?
If this works out I'm gonna get 2'more for the other car too.
Old 03-10-2014, 08:48 AM
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you need this for the rear:



for the front, something that converts the female inlet fitting to a male tip that the hose can slide over

Email / PM Chris, he took good care of me on them...
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:55 AM
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Did BAT carry the front fitting?

Btw... Jim, what are your fuel pressures post install? I had to make a shim for my fuel head this weekend to get up to 6.5 bar with the ancient stock pumps.
Old 03-10-2014, 09:25 AM
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no idea, Chris was kind enough to beat me to needing to even inquire 8-)

I installed a new CPR a few years ago, not sure I'd DIY my shims but I'm not super talented either...
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:27 AM
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Haha. Almost anyone regularly posting on this forum is well beyond DIY. It's just a #6 washer with a bigger center section machined/drilled out. You could do it no problem. I figured I would give it a go before dropping big bills on new pumps. The irony was I didn't do it until after I had already ordered the pumps. The CIS stuff is fun. Kinda like a mini hobby inside a hobby. My next undertaking will be to strip down a fuel head and rebuild it. Till then I need to get me some fittings on order so I can install those puppies next weekend.
Old 03-10-2014, 09:50 AM
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heh yeah I figure that

but me... I was happy to pay the $38 or whatever for the full kit, as it included a bevy of shims as well as new O-rings on the insert
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| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-10-2014, 09:57 AM
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Jim, know you've probably had a long day under your car if it wasn't raining down thar, but another Q for ya:

Installing my rear 044 and noted upon removing the wires from the OE pump that positive was the smaller terminal, negative larger.

On the 044, the positive is the larger terminal and negative smaller.

The 044 comes w/ new spades, I ASSume I have to use them - and - switch which one gets which (keeping pos to pos and neg to neg obviously, but making pos large and neg small now).

I know, kinda stating the obvious here but it's getting late and this is typically when all my worst decisions are made - so figured I'd better call it a night and confirm with Oh Fuelpumpsan first.

Thanks sir.

Gotta echo Jim's note here... this is a refreshingly easy job esp. w/ the rear wheel off. One of the easier ones I've done to date. Front pump will follow later in the week...
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| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-10-2014, 07:14 PM
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ps. Jimster (or anyone - Bueller?)...

...when you pull the front pump's inlet line... is there a preferred technique to not ending up w/ a faceful of gas (I'm a dodger, unlike Ronnie who prefers the full facial)?

I had a "plug" (T-handle hoodlatch release from mah former TR3, gawd rest it's soul) and vice grips and rags at my ready but stopped as like I said it was getting late and baaaaad things always happen @ the witching hour...
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| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-11-2014, 05:02 AM
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Hi Paul, yeah you have to cut off the old wire terminals and crimp and solder on the bigger ones that come with the 044 pumps. The new rubber boots that come with them are nice too. I smeared a little vasaline into those to help them fit on to the pump terminals.

I used a folded rag and needle nose vice grips clamped on to the short rubber hose feeding the front fuel pump. Kinda hard on the hose but with half a tank of gas in there what else can you do.

Good luck with it and man you got a really great deal on those pumps! I thought I was doing good when I paid $170 each for mine from german auto supply. I didn't think of checking ebay for them.
Old 03-11-2014, 05:57 AM
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So I was bored and started this project yesterday since you guys are a horrible influence, well that and this is what my front pump looked like.


IMG_5893 by thecrashingdoor, on Flickr

Granted, it was still working fine....I just cant have that in there.

Since my friends shop stocks 044s I figured why not just do both pumps.

Is there any re-tuning needed once this is completed? Do I need to worry about the 044's popping fuses?
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Last edited by 16Volt; 03-16-2014 at 11:02 AM..
Old 03-16-2014, 10:56 AM
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Funny you bring up this post again... I was going to update my progress tonight.

So, while this job should literally be some 8-10mm nuts on wires and cutting / re-crimping connectors and 17-19-22mm fuel lines and crush washers... (BFD - right???)... I'll submit that... it... was annnnnything but.

Jimboni - you must either be SuperAwesomelyAwesome, or severely downplaying this initiative, or (more likely)... I am teh sukk?

why?

THIS particular picture is telling (for one reason for this point, for another reason to follow)...



why?

The fookin WIRES are fukkin EXACTASS LENGTH. Undo them, cut the ends off, go to re-crimp... and... not enough slack to get any good access to for crimping. What a fukking shiitshow this ended up being for me.

not to mention

allllllllll the while, I'm getting weepy fuel drippings on now open cuts on my knuckles (mmm, feel the 93octane burrrrrrrrrrn!)... oh... and... alllll the way down my forearm, soaking my sleeve. Two pair of vice grips squeezing a rag over the outlet hose still left a steady drip. Awesome. A drip which splashed off the catch pan, repeatedly into mah face. SUPER!


anywho, back to the crimps...

yeah... would it have friggin KILLED PORSCHE to add another GDamn 2cm to the f'n wires? WTF? Everytime I'd slip the crimpers over the connector, it'd pull off. Then I crimped it on, get the boot back on (went on like snapping off a brastrap - poof - on!), got the outlet line on and tight... went to mount it up... pulled the muther fukking connector off.

ARGH.

^This sequence^ literally happened 2-3x. Tho, on every subsequent attempt, oh yeah now the boots wouldn't slip on like that brastrap snap I'd managed 1st time. Yay!

Got THAT buttoned up - finally - feeling like some sorta Native American on a Reservation huffing petrol fumes and particularly delirious by this point, and headed to the rear pump.

Oh the access! Sit there and work away. JOY!.

Not so fast.

THIS pic is revealing in this case:



why?

Wish I'd had it handy as I was reassembling and attempting (!!!) to slip the pump back into it's slide/boss fitting.

why?

Note the clocking of the wires. Reference aforementioned WTF why couldn't Porsche afford the car w/ 2more decimeters of wire - or - fuel line here.

why?

Don't get the clocking and exact orientation 'right' - and - no fitty pumpy again. I went thru various iterations until I finally got it close.

The bottom line needs to snake like an "S" under the bracket. Then, the wires need to be pointed up (mine aren't but I was NOT taking them boots off again - boots, which... by this point... I'd forgotten to pull off the old ones after snipping the connectors and slip on the new ones... whoops - those got reused). Nope. So, mine point elsewhere but I bent them upward to give the slack needed for pump sliding.

Lastly, the outlet line needs to be clocked as seen in this pic, or you won't slide the pump down far enough. And everytime you attempt to reclock it and tighten... it spins. FUN!

I've got it about right... now... to get to reinstall the pair of mounting bolts to the bracket. Anothhhhhhhhhher huge WTF. Why Porsche couldn't have put the bolt from the bottom up thru the rubber bushing? You need to slip them in from the top, then finagle the wrench on them. Mine are now impeded by aforementioned wrong clockage of the wires. Super!

I gave up there for the night, feeling the 93octane buzz entirely too much. So there it sits, for now. I did queue the pumps w/the key a few times to ensure they primed and didn't leak. Got that goin for me.

now...

Point #2 Shannon on your pic. OY! WOW is that some serious corrosion you gots goin on thar. Sorry to see that. Mine looks nothhhhhhhing like that, a Chicago car originally and in CT for last decade - and I'm not bashful about taking it out on dry winter roads, dirt roads, etc. If I'd been faced w/ those crusty fasteners, I'd probably put the fuel line in my mouth and lit a match. D'oh. Sorry, good luck.

To answer your Q... shouldn't have to do much tweaking beyond fudging the CO adjuster for final dial-in. I hope. I'm no where close to 'there' yet.

Fuse-wise... YES - you should defffffintely do this "while you're in there" - regardless of 044age: 930 Fuel Pump Fuse Overload - The Solution

Good luck, report back.
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |

Last edited by krasuskyp; 03-16-2014 at 03:47 PM..
Old 03-16-2014, 01:43 PM
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Hi Paul, sorry you're having a lot of trouble with it. I've had gasoline running down my arms many times. Worse than that is brake fluid when working on hydraulics while you're standing under a car thats up on a lift. Brake fluid has a weird warm sensation on your skin I've never liked. It has to be bad for you but gasoline is probably more carcinogenic with the benzene and other nasty stuff thats in it. It probably soaks into your skin and bloodstream faster than brake fluid too.

anyway...

Now that you mentioned the wire length for the front pump I made them longer by soldering on around 4 inches of same gauge wire with the new terminals for the pump and heat shrinking them so they are plenty long enough for the 044 pump installation and look good. I think you can sorta see that in pictures of my front pump installations I've already posted
I forgot abut that until reading your post.
Still it's pretty basic and not all that difficult even when laying on the ground under the car to do it.
25 years ago when I was in my 30's I worked as a street car mechanic full time on German cars so doing stuff like this is nothing new.

I replaced that short dry rotted hose between the gas tank and front fuel pump around 4 years ago with new hose when I removed the gas tank and repainted it with smoke grey rustoleum enamel.

good luck with it.
Old 03-16-2014, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Note the clocking of the wires. Reference aforementioned WTF why couldn't Porsche afford the car w/ 2more decimeters of wire - or - fuel line here.

why?
Funny stuff Paul, i say similar things about the way the car is made sometimes. Everything is so just exact to the fit, no room for play sometimes. Plus it has to be done in a certain order or your screwed.
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:16 PM
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Jim... yes, I neglected to include I too indeededly lengthened one of the 2 wires (the offending one that kept pulling the connector off and then incrementally shortening the wire) but w/ a butt splice and not solder, and I didn't bother to tape it either as I was tooooooo annoyed by that point.

It's up in the bellows of hell there so I don't think it'll pose any issue.

OH! More werserer... I couldn't get the front pump's outlet nut off, it loosened instead @ the seam at the pump not at the nut on top.

What's that translate into? It was torqueing one of the electrical posts into the fuel line braze... which... ended up snapping off the MF'ing post. ARGH. I have the pumps sold, to be delivered to a local guy tomorrow. Wicked cool! Not. Are those replaceable per chance???


Yeah Oil... really annoying stuff... it was an at least 87-swear job fersure. My kids kept coming out to the garage to see if I was OK b/c of the guttural screaming that ensued w/ each connector pull-off. FUCH ME IN THE GOATASS!

No apologies Jim, I remain beyond grateful for your tutelage here (as always)... 'twas just that yer install seemed utterly Ninjotic - and mine... seemed more... utterly... well... Me.

Did you have to do any tunage tweakage as Shannon wondered?


Ps. ohyeah... brakefluid is def up there w/ some of the nastiest nastiest stuff to get on yer skin. Brake Clean ain't much better. No thanks.
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| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |

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Old 03-16-2014, 02:55 PM
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Hmm, I was afraid of having to do any re-wiring.

I started this project myself at a buddies shop (Im too old to work on my back anymore, thats for you Paul) with the car on a lift. The crusty hose between the pump and tank stranded any progress as we didnt have any in stock. So the 930 starting Monday becomes like any other customer car, billable labor. Arghh.

So my options are do the stock front pump and call it a day or dive both feet into dual 044s and rewiring the relays huh....
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Old 03-16-2014, 03:18 PM
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"I couldn't get the front pump's outlet nut off, it loosened instead @ the seam at the pump not at the nut on top."

I think you're talking about the banjo fitting cap nut on the male threads of the check valve? And I think you're saying the cast aluminum outlet section of the pump the check valve and electrical posts are in turned in the stamped out aluminum housing of the pump? If so the cast aluminum part is fitted into the aluminum housing with an o ring around it so it should be OK if you didn't turn it too far and damage anything. Check and make sure no gas leaks out of that seam when it's running and making pressure.

"What's that translate into? It was torqueing one of the electrical posts into the fuel line braze... which... ended up snapping off the MF'ing post. ARGH. I have the pumps sold, to be delivered to a local guy tomorrow. Wicked cool! Not. Are those replaceable per chance??"
If I understand you correctly and you broke off one of the electrical posts on the fuel pump I don't think it's replaceable. Hard to say without seeing it. My guess is you'll probably need another fuel pump.
Old 03-16-2014, 03:23 PM
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shoulda stayed on yer back Shannon, would fund this well:



DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!





You really should separate-fuse the FP's regardless... only a matter of time till it strands you otherwise (BTDT)...

bummer on the billable bit... that sucks.

git'rdun!
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| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |

Last edited by krasuskyp; 03-16-2014 at 03:45 PM..
Old 03-16-2014, 03:29 PM
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Paul,
I laughed my ass off until I realized that you were describing exactly what happens to me -- an unending array of unpredictable and incredible situations that can only be explained by my "Theory of Conspiracy of Inanimate Objects."
It's the same theory that causes extension cords and hoses to loop over the most out-of-the-way objects -- that even if you TRIED to do it, you could not get the wire/hose to catch on those objects.
Old 03-16-2014, 03:32 PM
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Jim-

As seen in this pic, it's the left nut... it wouldn't turn @ the first copper washer seam, rather it broke tension @ the lower washer seam (against the pump itself) - and you cannot get a wrench on the boss @ the pump end as it resides between the two terminal posts - of course!:



This meant the whole assembly was turning, which turned the fuel pump electrical post against the swaged fitting on the fuel line and busted the terminal off.

not replaceable... of course... figured as much. Just threw out $100. PERFECT. Arrrrrrgh...

Now, I'm not exactly sure what sorta photographic Tomfewlery (or Joefewlery for that matter) you used in your shot there - but - I'll be damned if my car appeared to have ANNNNYWHERE neare that type of space to work within between the tank and the crossmember.

and

I'm not at all sure how you managed to fit that rubber encasement around the pump in there like that honestly. I had to seemingly jam the pump back up in there as it were! OK, not literally but it's tight. Granted, my car's not uberhigh in the air, just up on low-rent Crapsman stands...

The whole clocking incident had me cursing the Rube Goldberg-esque contraption! Again, couldashoulda just been a few nuts, fittings, and connectors... but noooooo!
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| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |

Last edited by krasuskyp; 03-16-2014 at 03:44 PM..
Old 03-16-2014, 03:38 PM
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BALOO!

I'm soooo glad you used that cord reference as example! I must curse that exact sentiment 1000000x a week here in my werld! It's uncanny! I'm constantly muttering "!@@#$%^& I couldn't do "that" if I'd actually !@#@$$%^^&* tried!!!"

It's especially true with the vacuum cleaner cord and the garden hose!

too funny (not really, as it's actually sooooooooooooo frustrating!!!)...
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| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-16-2014, 03:41 PM
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