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Smart quod bastardus
 
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adjusting the air flow metering plate height-HOW TO?

Can anyone walk me through making the adjustment on the air flow metering plate height in my 79 930 Euro fuel head?

The plate seems to be riding too high in the cone and needs to be dropped down a few millimeters.

Where is the pin and leaf spring that controls rest position on this CIS air meter for the turbos.....and how do I make the adjustment?

Car has been exhibiting strange behavior for awhile and I started tearing into the CIS system with a fine tooth comb to make sure nothing is out of whack and noticed the air flow metering plate is out of spec.

What type of running anomolies would this cause if the plate was running too high in the cone at rest position?

Thanks,
Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 03-24-2014, 09:13 AM
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This is just a guess, but maybe worth checking.

What if the needle valve in the fuel head is stuck or binding, not giving the metering plate the correct resistance (so to speak), which in turn will cause it to be out of spec. This would also cause poor running, or no-start conditions.

Has your car been sitting?
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:06 AM
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The interference fit pin you're looking for is in the air flow meter housing under the fuel inlet line. You'll have to unscrew the fuel inlet line to get at it. I used to have the PDF that gave the specs and told how to do it with pictures and diagrams but can't find it. Larry at CISFLOWTECH emailed the PDF to me a few years ago.

You should know what you're doing before messing with it and I suggest calling Larry and ask if he will email the instructions. Brian Bodart may have them too.

If I find the PDF document I'll export the instructions as a jpeg and try posting them here. I may have done that a few years ago.
Old 03-24-2014, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
The interference fit pin you're looking for is in the air flow meter housing under the fuel inlet line. You'll have to unscrew the fuel inlet line to get at it. I used to have the PDF that gave the specs and told how to do it with pictures and diagrams but can't find it. Larry at CISFLOWTECH emailed the PDF to me a few years ago.

You should know what you're doing before messing with it and I suggest calling Larry and ask if he will email the instructions. Brian Bodart may have them too.

If I find the PDF document I'll export the instructions as a jpeg and try posting them here. I may have done that a few years ago.
Thanks man. I will look for the PDF here if you post them. Or you could PM them to me as well.....whatever is easier for you.

In the meantime I will try to call Larry and see if he will work with me. My real fear is tapping the pin in too far and then having to go back inside the housing to drive it back up. Looking for a veteran to respond with some words of wisdom on this procedure to make me feel better before i break out the 20lb sledge.

The plunger is fine and I just went thru the hole process of cleaning the lever and fuel head underside when I separated the housing halves a few weeks ago. I did not see a leaf spring or took notice of it anywhere when I was doing that work. On the 911SC it was alot more obvious how it worked.

Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"

Last edited by fredmeister; 03-24-2014 at 12:20 PM..
Old 03-24-2014, 12:17 PM
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I looked for that PDF and unless it's on an external storage hard drive I havn't looked through yet I don't have it anymore.

I do know that when the metering plate is at rest with no control pressure or anything it should be in the middle part of the mid point of the metering cone it's in. By that I mean the short area below the flare above and flare below - it's kind of like the midpoint or narrowest part of the venturi in a carburater throat. The metering cone gets wider above and below that short section.
Larry's a nice guy and if you call him maybe he'll email the PDF to you.

Anyway, it's real simple and if yours does need adjustment you do it with a small hammer and small drift punch with light taps to move the pin and if you go too far, yeah you have to take it apart and tap it back out from the inside.
Old 03-24-2014, 01:50 PM
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:11 PM
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^^^good stuff. Thanks!
Old 03-25-2014, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willtel View Post

Thanks man exactly what i was looking for.

Thanks to all the others who responded with info too.

What would make the adjusment go out of spec as I dont see really any moving wear parts or reason for the plate to go out of adjustment?

I cant imagine this is a common thing to happen, and I just noticed it by inspecting the fuel head carefully trying to solve this crazy misfire issue that cropped up a year ago.

Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 03-27-2014, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
I looked for that PDF and unless it's on an external storage hard drive I havn't looked through yet I don't have it anymore.

I do know that when the metering plate is at rest with no control pressure or anything it should be in the middle part of the mid point of the metering cone it's in. By that I mean the short area below the flare above and flare below - it's kind of like the midpoint or narrowest part of the venturi in a carburater throat. The metering cone gets wider above and below that short section.
Larry's a nice guy and if you call him maybe he'll email the PDF to you.

Anyway, it's real simple and if yours does need adjustment you do it with a small hammer and small drift punch with light taps to move the pin and if you go too far, yeah you have to take it apart and tap it back out from the inside.
I called Larry and he talked me thru it. He is a great guy to have told me this without hesitation....I know he runs a business and did not have to tell me without charging me for the info. Just wanted to give him props.
Now to find time to make the adjustment and then fingers crossed this solves my problem.

thanks JFairman
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 03-27-2014, 08:21 AM
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i posted in one of your other threads about how the dist is connected to the MSD.
if you connect it the way MSD says to, it triggers off the wrong slope out of the dist.
this wrong slope can be unstable AND it advances the timing as RPM's go up.

i saw something were you weree concerned about the sprak jumping from the rotor to the wrong cylinder because of where the rotor points due to it being locked down. this would also be because the dist is wired wrong.
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 03-27-2014, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T77911S View Post
i posted in one of your other threads about how the dist is connected to the MSD.
if you connect it the way MSD says to, it triggers off the wrong slope out of the dist.
this wrong slope can be unstable AND it advances the timing as RPM's go up.

i saw something were you weree concerned about the sprak jumping from the rotor to the wrong cylinder because of where the rotor points due to it being locked down. this would also be because the dist is wired wrong.
I know and I already tried reversing polarity on the wires to the MSD and it made things a little better but did not fix the problem.

Then I actually modified my rotor to eliminate what you described. They call that rotor phasing. It is out of the equation 100% now and made no difference either to the symptoms I have so I dont think that was the problem at all. Cap and rotor show no signs of tracking and have all been replaced too. The rotor I am using is also the correct NAPA non resistor rotor because apparently the MSD burns out the OEM Bosch resistor rotor....though one lasted a while in my car before I switched over.

I originally blamed the ignition because of the symptoms but having eliminated every possible thing along that route (except returning the brand new MSD box) I turned my attention back to the FI system, however unlikely, because my fuel pressures have always been within normal ranges.

I would love to have someone post a reliable good running ignition curve for the MSD 6AL2 programmable unit but my requests fall on deaf ears. Maybe its top secret and I dont have clearance.

Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"

Last edited by fredmeister; 03-27-2014 at 09:44 AM..
Old 03-27-2014, 09:38 AM
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how about an air leak. i am battling a never ending intake air leak. nuts keep losening up.
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 03-27-2014, 10:29 AM
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Nope we are all good on vacuum leaks. Checked everything with a can of starter fluid/ether.

You have something wrong going on if your intake nuts are constantly loosening up. At most you should only have to check after initially replacing the intake and insulator blocks and gaskets perhaps they may be slightly lose after some heat cycles.

But check to see that your installing the gaskets properly and that the intake studs did not strip the threads in the heads from overtorquing.

Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 03-28-2014, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
I would love to have someone post a reliable good running ignition curve for the MSD 6AL2 programmable unit but my requests fall on deaf ears. Maybe its top secret and I dont have clearance.

Fred
heh, I know - I've been quietly sitting here on the sidelines awaiting your requests to become fulfilled so I can ride yer coattails accordingly

mine's sitting on the bench awaiting install in coming week or so

hoping to see someone chime in here w/ that certainly, would be hugely helpful to so many!
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
Nope we are all good on vacuum leaks. Checked everything with a can of starter fluid/ether.

You have something wrong going on if your intake nuts are constantly loosening up. At most you should only have to check after initially replacing the intake and insulator blocks and gaskets perhaps they may be slightly lose after some heat cycles.

But check to see that your installing the gaskets properly and that the intake studs did not strip the threads in the heads from overtorquing.

Fred
everything is new for me. i think mine has to do with the new injector blocks being compressed due to the gaskets not fitting the ports on the blocks. but thats my issue.

did you check your nuts. (yea, i left that one open).


what are your AFR's at idle and cruise? mine at 2800 or so is upper 15's, like 15.7 or 8. thats why i still think i have an air leak. it was 16.7 before i fixed the major intake leak.
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 03-28-2014, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T77911S View Post
everything is new for me. i think mine has to do with the new injector blocks being compressed due to the gaskets not fitting the ports on the blocks. but thats my issue.

did you check your nuts. (yea, i left that one open).


what are your AFR's at idle and cruise? mine at 2800 or so is upper 15's, like 15.7 or 8. thats why i still think i have an air leak. it was 16.7 before i fixed the major intake leak.
Yeah they are a dark shade of blue.....the one that hangs lowest at least.....ha,ha.

At idle I run 13.0 to 1 and at cruise 14.7 to 1. Anything richer at idle and the car reaks and burns my eyes. My issue has never so much been getting the AF ratio correct its a severe miss and terrible throttle response trying to get the car to climb above 3000rpm. It goes away when the weather is hot and gets worse with cold weather. Once the car is fully warmed up it runs great. thats what drives me crazy.
I am hoping the air flow metering plate realignment will solve this nightmare.

see ya,
Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 03-28-2014, 11:38 AM
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Quote:

Quote de T77911S



i posted in one of your other threads about how the dist is connected to the MSD.

if you connect it the way MSD says to, it triggers off the wrong slope out of the dist.

this wrong slope can be unstable AND it advances the timing as RPM's go up.



i saw something were you weree concerned about the sprak jumping from the rotor to the wrong cylinder because of where the rotor points due to it being locked down. this would also be because the dist is wired wrong.

I know and I already tried reversing polarity on the wires to the MSD and it made things a little better but did not fix the problem.



Then I actually modified my rotor to eliminate what you described. They call that rotor phasing. It is out of the equation 100% now and made no difference either to the symptoms I have so I dont think that was the problem at all. Cap and rotor show no signs of tracking and have all been replaced too. The rotor I am using is also the correct NAPA non resistor rotor because apparently the MSD burns out the OEM Bosch resistor rotor....though one lasted a while in my car before I switched over.



I originally blamed the ignition because of the symptoms but having eliminated every possible thing along that route (except returning the brand new MSD box) I turned my attention back to the FI system, however unlikely, because my fuel pressures have always been within normal ranges.



I would love to have someone post a reliable good running ignition curve for the MSD 6AL2 programmable unit but my requests fall on deaf ears. Maybe its top secret and I dont have clearance.



Fred
Does the MSD run a MAP sensor? If so, I'd give you my ignition numbers. Not a problem.
Old 03-28-2014, 03:52 PM
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Yes the 6AL2 runs a MAP sensor.

I sent you a PM for the ignition curves.

Thanks Tippy!

Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"

Last edited by fredmeister; 03-31-2014 at 05:59 AM..
Old 03-31-2014, 05:55 AM
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