Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Johns Creek, GA
Posts: 1,358
value of DIY vs farming it out

quite a few folks DIY vs farming it out repairs as 1.) you like turning wrenches 2.) you will know what is going into it. 3) have the time and the skill set, and 4.) save money (most of the time but don't ask me how i know). Maybe not all these apply at one particular time (or there may be other reasons) but these are some reasons why i DIY as much as i do or can do.

on the VALUE side, lets say you need a top end rebuild. thankfully i don't need one. If you did the top end yourself vs farming it out, and let' say you sell the car in 2-3 years, how much does DIY diminish the value of the job over a farm out job when it does come time to sell the car? maybe the $ amount of time / labor you put into the job? i would liked think it doesn't matter if it is done correctly. one would argue not being trained mechanic may diminish the value of the work.
__________________
Charles
79 930 #632
88 911 Cab
74 TR6
88 CRX Si

Last edited by cellison; 03-30-2014 at 06:43 AM..
Old 03-30-2014, 06:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
beancounter
 
jwasbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weehawken, NJ
Posts: 3,443
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellison View Post
i would liked think it doesn't matter if it is done correctly. one would argue not being trained mechanic may diminish the value of the work.
One of the reasons I ended up becoming a hardcore DIY guy with these cars is that I had mulitple problems with P wrenches doing shoddy work. These were people who would top the list of local recommendations if you asked on the forums or at a PCA event.

At this point, I would be more comfortable with a car that has been DIY'd by one of the active forum members here, than with one that came with "pedigree" from some big name. I have had hands on a top end rebuild of a car that was built by a rather famous shop...a big name that would have almost any 911 enthusiast oohing and ahhing. There were inexplicable things about this car...like no blow off valve or bypass assembly. A "dyno tuned" 3.4 liter motec EFI car with all the trimmings...probably 60k in receipts from big name shop. I traded cars with the owner for a few miles and when we swapped back he said "I wish my car ran like yours"
__________________
Jacob
Current: 1983 911 GT4 Race Car / 1999 Spec Miata / 2000 MB SL500 / 1998 MB E300TD / 1998 BMW R1100RT / 2016 KTM Duke 690
Past: 2009 997 Turbo Cab / 1979 930
Old 03-30-2014, 06:58 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
speednme1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,426
Doing your own work IMO is best if you have the skills for the task. That is not to say you shouldn't try(depending on the task). There is a lot of control with cost and the safety of your vehicle when you're doing your own work.

When a major top end or full rebuild is needed, if you are not sure that you are up to the task then farming it out may be the best cost effective choice in the long run. Many on this board have the skills necessary to do a DIY. Should it effect your resale value? It might or might not... Keeping all of the receipts and taking pics(very easy with today's technology ) should help a DIY . Having a well known shop do the work will give a peace of mind to a potential buyer(May also increase the value)...but only if the buyer is familiar with the shop or has a way to research the shop. A ppi is huge factor of the process..especially if it includes a compression and leak down tests. Time is money..so even a DIY guy might benefit from farming out a job.
__________________
Rey....77 930 "the Mistress"
Old 03-30-2014, 07:08 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,289
For me it's 1 through 4 and I wouldn't be able to afford the car if I had to pay other people to work on it.
The same is true of old single cam 4 and 6 cylinder BMW's I've had in the past.
Old 03-30-2014, 07:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
wgwollet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,144
Garage
Hi

Your forgetting one important item...

DIY, usually for me it's done right and no short cuts. I find some garages are no better work then me. Remember going to have a simple oil change and the guy forgets to tighten oil filter....same theory....PLUS SAVE MONEY
Old 03-30-2014, 07:26 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
OG
 
///Criss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 230
Garage
I like to know what's going on. Shops (in my experience) don't pay attention to the details and just rush the car out so they can get to the next one. I've spent enough money on bad shops over the years to keep me motivated to learn and do my own work. In the infamous words of my good friend Blyguy "How hard could it be?"
__________________
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa SE... Mega Crotch Rocket!!!
1988 BMW M3.... WWWRRROOOMPP!!!!
1983 911SC (long term Project)
1987 930 GP White Woooosh!!!!!! Burble burble!! Hahaha
Old 03-30-2014, 07:58 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
speednme1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,426
Truth is what shop you're using makes a huge difference. Some shops take your car and you don't see it again until it is finished. I've been fortunate to deal with shops that have allowed me to see the progress as it is happening as well as allowing me to get my hands dirty with them guiding me. Very rare in today's time. I've developed friendships along the way. That is not to say that I haven't had my fair share with scumbag shops..I have.

There are a lot of things to consider when doing your own work. Having the right tools,skills and patience are key for a DIY. Lots of horror stories with DIY guys(plus shops) can be found on a daily basis. Getting hurt and being out of work for months at a time is not cost effective if one is not sure with what they are doing. Knowing your limitations plus time constraints should be considered. Proper planning is key.
__________________
Rey....77 930 "the Mistress"

Last edited by speednme1; 03-30-2014 at 08:40 AM..
Old 03-30-2014, 08:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rockwall, Texas
Posts: 8,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwasbury View Post
One of the reasons I ended up becoming a hardcore DIY guy with these cars is that I had mulitple problems with P wrenches doing shoddy work. These were people who would top the list of local recommendations if you asked on the forums or at a PCA event.
WOW, this is a MAJOR reason for me, as well. I have always felt I've gotten fu@ked over one way or the other (either shoddy work and/or charged too much for it - sometimes both) even by people with good reputations. There have only been a couple of exceptions to this, honestly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
. . . I wouldn't be able to afford the car if I had to pay other people to work on it.
Same here - could not even consider owning a car like this if I wasn't able to work on it.
Old 03-30-2014, 09:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Large Member
 
krasuskyp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: top of 3rd
Posts: 4,164
Garage
I don't think DIY diminishes any future value unless there's zip ties and bungee cords and string and exposed wire connectors holding it together . You know, hypothetically.

I definitely like to be able to clean things up while I'm in there - for some strange reason that's fun. Shops won't do that.

I don't like that my skillset isn't up to par w/ so many of the mega ultra uber rock starz here, but I'm learning and progressing every day I suppose. So many of you fukkerz truly amaze and humble me.

I too have had botched work by reputable go-to big-name shops - fersure. Sad but true.

I enjoy the feeling of accomplishment from DIY'ing, and learning about how the car works and is put together in the process. Provides a great understanding of the systems which helps me drive and own the car better.

Becoming one with it, so to speak. Be the ball, Danny... fanananananaaaa...
__________________
Paul... CT | '87 930 | '08 M3 6gang vert |
past:

| '07 S6 | '98 M3 vert | '01 M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 S8 | '95 S6 6gang | '88 M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-30-2014, 10:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jeff NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NW NJ
Posts: 1,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by krasuskyp View Post
I enjoy the feeling of accomplishment from DIY'ing, and learning about how the car works and is put together in the process. Provides a great understanding of the systems which helps me drive and own the car better.

Becoming one with it, so to speak. Be the ball, Danny... fanananananaaaa...
I totally agree with Paul on this. From the little work that I've done so far, I definitely have learned about how the systems I've worked on function. This will certainly help me over the long term.

I have also learned that the Germans that designed this car have MUCH smaller hands than I do. Nothing is easy!
__________________
1988 930 Venetian Blue
Old 03-30-2014, 10:50 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: w3w///reconnect.whips.females
Posts: 560
Garage
For me it's the little stuff like missing screws when I got the car even though great pedigree. Sure the heat shield will stay on with only 3 screws, but why not put them all back on? Time is the answer, professional mechanics have not only the skill but they know how to make money at it, and that means doing a job in the least time so even the most experienced mechanics are not necessarily better.
Second reason is the cleanup, I'll clean everything even just to get a good look.
Third my mechanic knows I'll be back in there later on so if a corner is cut I'll see it.
Fourth It gives me more confidence for those long trips, I know if something does fail I am better prepared to get it running again on my own.
Finally, I know if I do screw it up I can bring it to a shop and they WILL get it working, hasn't happened yet but it is comfort to know I have a backup plan.

I keep pushing against my limitations but I do know them and the major one is time. It takes me much longer to do a job than a pro, researching all the tightening torques etc. and then worrying if the previous guy over-torqued it should I do the same. But it's part of gaining appreciation for the car.
Old 03-30-2014, 05:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,726
Hate to say this, but if I had to pay a shop to do the work, I couldn't afford the marque.

I will spend hours online trying to figure out stuff before handing over dough. Did have to have a helping hand (jpnovak) with getting my car to start with MegaSquirt.
Old 03-30-2014, 05:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
speednme1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,426
I definitely agree that no one takes better care of your car than yourself. Many have done a rear bearing on a 930 and many would not wish it on their worst enemy. I was at the shop last week watching this work being carried out. I'd rather be kicked in the family jewels than attempt this work myself. It takes more than some youtube videos to accomplish this task. Having the time, right tools and knowledge would make the difference. I work 12hr shifts 5am-5pm or 5pm-5am. When ot becomes available it can last for weeks. Last year my longest marathon was 35 nites. If I stick to being a diy guy I would lose all interest in the hobby due to time constraints and family resposibilities.

Some have the skills,tools and time..with that I say more power to you. I admire the tenacity to do every work yourself. I have some skills,tools and some time. I unfortunately have to pay the piper when neccessary. Someday when I retire that might change..
__________________
Rey....77 930 "the Mistress"
Old 03-30-2014, 06:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Austin
Posts: 434
Quote:
hate to say this, but if i had to pay a shop to do the work, i couldn't afford the marque.
this
Old 03-31-2014, 05:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mark houghton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Central Washington State
Posts: 3,794
I'm the kind of person that can fix your toaster when it dies and otherwise breathe new life into all things mechanical and electrical, when by rights they should be put to rest. It's not a skill, but rather an unfortunate affliction I was born with.

Working on the 930 or any of my current or past vehicles is just something I never even think twice about. I must admit, though, that I did once take my truck in for a brake job because I couldn't get the damn caliper off (frozen on from years of salt exposure and I ran out of patience).

You guys have all summed up the same reasons I like to self-wrench. Plus, the fact that I live out in the middle of Porsche nowhere land with narry a P mechanic in sight and the local mechanics know more about fixing John Deere tractors than they do air cooled Porsches kind of forces a person to do his own thing - even if I am a bit unorthadox in my approach sometimes.
__________________
Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 03-31-2014, 08:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
bmwtmx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 334
Garage
I do as much as I can on my own but I have a good idea of my capabilities and time constraints. As an example, I farmed out my engine-out work as I didn't feel comfortable doing this in my garage even though some members have had good experience and didn't even need to take the motor out. Most other things I will attempt and will post here and on other forums for advice and any little nuances that may be overlooked (I just posted one today!).

But I agree with the sentiment here. Just bringing it to a shop doesn't guarantee anything. My 996TT was taken in for routine work and they put a nice gouge in the rocker which I made them fix. I also hate getting back my car with seats and/or steering covered in dirt and grease if they didn't cover them which most small indy's don't.

Just take your time, and research research research until you feel good about tackling the job.
Old 03-31-2014, 08:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Mr. C
 
SAY - 642's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 637
Garage
I enjoy working on my cars. Changing oil, plugs, rotating tires etc. But installing EFI, Tuning etc is beyond my scope. I don't have the proper tools.

I'm amazed that most mechanics, really don't have a clue when it comes to these Air Cooled Porsche Engines.

I think that if an engine is built by a pro shop, it does add a level of panache to your 911. It has a Pedigree.

I searched and searched for a full year, before I stumbled upon my 87 Carrera from Dawes, in my own neighborhood! I was looking at a Carrera CS. Jerry Woods had rebuilt the engine and trans. It was very alluring, unfortunately it had sold before I could procure it. In the end my car was 10K cheaper and Dawes is the end of the rainbow for my needs

I would not even consider buying a 911, without a reputable mechanic in close proximity.

Check this baby out !

__________________
" Mr.C "

Six = Sex
Old 03-31-2014, 09:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 307
Garage
Unfortunately resale does suffer when you DIY your car. Potential buyers love to see receipts from Porsche dealers and upscale shops.
__________________
84 Carrera
76 912e
Old 03-31-2014, 09:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jeff NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NW NJ
Posts: 1,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by bh912e View Post
Unfortunately resale does suffer when you DIY your car. Potential buyers love to see receipts from Porsche dealers and upscale shops.
While I do agree that buyers love to see dealer receipts, the market for most of these cars is so hot right now, and there are so few good ones available compared to the number of buyers, that it is a sellers market. If you balk for a day while contemplating whether or not it is an issue that the seller worked on his own car, someone else will buy it. I looked for months from last summer through November for my 930 and you had to have cash ready, and make a quick offer with few contingencies (good PPI and seeing it in person were my only contingencies after a couple good, long conversations with the seller) for them to accept the deal. If I were to say that the car was worth less because there was DIY work done, the seller would simply move on, IMHO.
__________________
1988 930 Venetian Blue
Old 03-31-2014, 09:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
beancounter
 
jwasbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weehawken, NJ
Posts: 3,443
Quote:
Originally Posted by bh912e View Post
Potential buyers love to see receipts from Porsche dealers and upscale shops.
yes...they do. buyers will get all warm and fuzzy when they see lots of cash spent at a "pedigree" shop, and when said shop vouches for the car.

unfortunately the warm and fuzzies turn to tears when you realize the "pedigree" receipts aren't worth the paper they are printed on...car doesn't perform as expected, leak-down #'s suggest an issue, teardown reveals:

__________________
Jacob
Current: 1983 911 GT4 Race Car / 1999 Spec Miata / 2000 MB SL500 / 1998 MB E300TD / 1998 BMW R1100RT / 2016 KTM Duke 690
Past: 2009 997 Turbo Cab / 1979 930
Old 03-31-2014, 10:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:00 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.