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Pistons and cylinders went on today

A new set of Mahle 3.3 pistons and cylinders I bought 6 or 7 years ago finally found a new home today.
When the new wristpin lines up just right and penetrates the new bushing in the con rod and slides in smoothly it's a wonderful feeling.
Then when the wristpin circlip snaps into the groove in the piston it's like ahhhhhh . . .

The funky looking aluminum foil is there in case a circlip went flying into an open spigot and the wadded up paper towels around the chains are there to keep anything else from falling into the case.
The mahle circlips are easy to install compared to thicker stiffer JE circlips.

The blue stuff is hylomar I put on the base gasket so it doesn't leak. They usually don't leak when installed dry but I don't want to take a chance on oil leaks there and any hylomar squeeze out cleans up easily with lacquer thinner on a rag or paper towel.
The reddish stuff is redline assembly lube.

Old 03-30-2014, 04:43 PM
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Looks great!
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Old 03-30-2014, 04:50 PM
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What head studs are you using?

Any chance you still need a 930 intake to play with? I have two gathering dust.
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Old 03-30-2014, 05:12 PM
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Jim, I can relate to the "oooooohhhhh ahhhhhhhh" of rod penetration and smooth slide in!

Man, you've definitely got coconuts swangin' doing all this with the engine in the car!
Old 03-30-2014, 05:27 PM
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Looking great Jim!
Who's sellin the intakes? I could use a spare.
Old 03-30-2014, 05:31 PM
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I used Hylomar too under my cylinders per Henry Schmidt I believe.

Luckily, I had access to many tubes of the stuff.
Old 03-30-2014, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willtel View Post
What head studs are you using?

Any chance you still need a 930 intake to play with? I have two gathering dust.
They're ARP head studs.
I have 40mm aluminum CIS injector blocks and last spring I ported the intake ports on the freshened up heads I'm using to match them. A few weeks ago I opened up the intake manifold holes to match up with the 40mm injector blocks so I don't need another intake thanks.

Once I got all the pistons and cylinders on I smeared ARP fastener assembly lube on the head stud threads, washers, and nuts, and installed the heads with the nuts threaded down loose so the heads can move around a little while the locating dowels line up with the cam tower.
Then when it's on with the honda bond 4 I'm using to seal the cam tower to the heads and the oil return tubes are in place I'll torque down the heads.
The ARP head stud nuts get tightened to 38 foot pounds in two steps.

Hopefully I can do that tomorrow but my landlord is having the place I rent painted tomorrow so probably not. They spent last week replacing rotted wood and pressure cleaning the old place and made an unbelievable mess... paint chips are everywhere.
Old 03-30-2014, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
I used Hylomar too under my cylinders per Henry Schmidt I believe.

Luckily, I had access to many tubes of the stuff.
I found a 3.5oz tube of blue hylomar on ebay for a good price with free shipping a month or so ago. You could buy little tubes of it at Harbor Freight around 4 years ago but not anymore. I think Henry uses green Curil T on the base gaskets. I don't know, they both work similar.

Seems Hylomar is usually made in England. I think Rolls Royce invented it for sealing turbine engines many years ago. It can handle really high temperatures and never hardens. Always wipes off and cleans up easily with laquer thinner on a rag. I use it on all the gaskets accept for the exhaust manifold and turbo gaskets.
Old 03-30-2014, 06:16 PM
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I used Curil T on the base gaskets on my rebuild and not a leak anywhere.

What happened that you are rebuilding?, I did not see a post you had engine trouble....


thanks,
Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:51 AM
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The engine ran really great but it had low compression by around 20psi in number 6 and burned a lot of oil and would foul the number 6 sparkplug requiring me to remove it and scrape the burned oil carbon off it frequently.
I knew the valve guides were worn because I could move the valve spring retainers back and forth sideways around 1/16" or more on some valves. I figured it had some broken rings too but they were all intact when I pulled off the cylinders.
When I took off the cam tower looking up from the bottom of it I could finally see 2 more cam spray bar holes per cylinder that you can't see from removing the upper rocker cover and looking down at them while the motor is in the car. I checked them with a sewing needle held in the end of needle nose vice grips and sure enough some of them were totally clogged and that explains why some valve guides were very worn and others were not. My low mileage rocker arm pads were pitted on most cylinders from not enough oil too and Craig Garrett who goes by "cgarr" on the forums has reground and repaired them really nice. My 964 grind webcams are in good shape and I can't afford to send them out anywhere these days anyway.

I bought the new Mahle pistons and cylinders, rebuilt and resurfaced 930 cylinder heads with new valve guides, used 40mm aluminum injector blocks, ARP head studs, gaskets, and Glyco rod bearings gradually over the years when I would find them at really good prices on the pelican and rennlist classifieds. I had the rods resized and new bushings pressed into them at a local machine shop.
The parts have been in boxes in the corner of my small walk through closet/living room taking up space for years now and the weather is perfect (76 degrees and 46% humidity right now) for work outdoors this time of year in S. Florida and work is slow so I have the time at the moment.
Some friends are also rebuilding their 930 motors right now and that helped motivate me to finally do it too rather than wait any longer.
I just wish the house painters would finish up and stop making dust that's blowing around my driveway so I can get back to work on it.
Old 03-31-2014, 09:28 AM
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Looking good Jim. Love the ARP hardware. I have the same ones on my engine. Such beautiful stuff, its too bad they end hidden when it all goes back together.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:34 AM
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Nice work JF. I have used aluminum foil for similar blocking off purposes or masking things off when painting, too. Easy and maybe cheaper than tons of blue tape.

I've never been that far into these flat six motors and didn't realize the big ends of the rods were accessible without opening the case. But obviously they are...
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:43 AM
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Looking good Jim. Love the ARP hardware. I have the same ones on my engine. Such beautiful stuff, its too bad they end hidden when it all goes back together.
Yeah I know...
The rounded tit on the end of the ARP headstuds makes it a lot easier feeding on the washers while the motor is in the car too.
I put the lubed washer on the shaft of a skinny screwdriver and while holding the end of it against the end of the head stud I pushed the washer down and onto the stud with another skinny screwdriver. I lucked out and didn't drop any washers down into the cooling fins on the head while doing it... That would have sucked.
On a motor stand that operation would have been much easier with the motor turned sideways or at an angle but yeah I'm nuts and I'm doing this in the car with the back of the motor lowered down about a foot on to a jackstand in my driveway

It's not bad sitting on the ground behind the car and working on it and my back is OK but it hurt when I hit my head on a bumber shock stud yesterday...
Old 03-31-2014, 09:47 AM
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Nice work JF. I have used aluminum foil for similar blocking off purposes or masking things off when painting, too. Easy and maybe cheaper than tons of blue tape.

I've never been that far into these flat six motors and didn't realize the big ends of the rods were accessible without opening the case. But obviously they are...
When removing them you hold on to the rod cap on one side and pull off the rod from the other side.
The old rod bearings were coming out of the rod caps while doing this though and they would stay on the crank journals with oil surface tension and slowly rotate around from gravity but I put a long skinny mechanics magnet in there to grip on to the rod bearings before they would fall down into the case. That would have been easier with 3 hands but I got it done without dropping any.
Old 03-31-2014, 09:57 AM
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I love the description of fitting the cylinders - I will do a rebuild at some point for sure and cant wait for that exact moment

Have fun
Old 03-31-2014, 11:01 AM
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Jim, did you use new OE rod bolts?
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:49 AM
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Jim, did you use new OE rod bolts?
The motor had raceware rod bolts in it when I bought the car in 2006. The machine shop had to remove them and reinstall them and torque them when resizing the big ends of the rods.
First they grind off around .001" off the surfaces where the rod and rod cap come together and then they reinstall the rod bolts, torque them to spec, and rehone the big end holes so they are perfectly round at the original correct size again.

They checked them first and they were a little oval or egg shaped. Thats what Porsche rods and most other engine rods do after a while.

Raceware are the most expensive rod bolts I know of and I reused them. I called raceware tech support and they said to torque them in 3 steps with 20w50 non synthetic motor oil on the threads in three steps: 20, then 35, and then 52 ft lbs.
Thats what I did with a friends Snap On 3/8" drive click type torque wrench that was recalibrated about a year ago.

I got a 1" thick folder of reciepts with the car when I got it. The previous owner had shops in Tennessee do all the work. The transmission was completely rebuilt around 35,000 mile ago and still works and shifts great. The top end was done at the same time but clogged cam spray bars sometime after that rebuild took their toll on the valvetrain.

My guess is turbo oil coke granules from people not idling the motor or driving slowly for a while to cool down the turbo bearing housing after boosting it hard caused the cokeing that led to the clogged cam spray bars.
The oil from the turbo sump goes back to the oil tank unfiltered unless you put a filter in the oil line before it goes to the oil tank.

The painters have left for the day so I just came in from torqueing the head studs to 38 ft lbs in 3 steps. 12, then 22, then 38. Then took the unsealed cam tower back off. Guess I'll install the engine oil cooler next. Then do the cam towers tomorrow after organizing all the nuts and everything. I want to get a little roller to spread the hondabond4 evenly on the cam towers before I start that.

Last edited by JFairman; 03-31-2014 at 12:22 PM..
Old 03-31-2014, 12:19 PM
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Done an engine rebuild this way before too about 12 years ago or so on my 911SC when it burned an exhaust valve. Look at it this way, its less work having to lift the engine of an engine stand when youre done and can do most of the install by yourself this way.

One thing to think about, pull the oil spray bars out of the camtower and run a pipe cleaner thru them. Its the best way to make sure they are clean before reassembling the top end. You can drill out the plug in the cam tower to remove them and then tap with a 1/8 pipe plug to reseal it when reinstalled.

Are you also considering adding the little sheet metal block off tins that cover the engine case half bolts on top of the cylinders? My 79 did not have these on them from the factory but I added them during my rebuild.

Fred
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---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"

Last edited by fredmeister; 03-31-2014 at 12:26 PM..
Old 03-31-2014, 12:23 PM
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I talked to Craig Garrett about removing the cam spray bars and he doesn't recommend doing that. I kind of like the idea of physically cleaning the inside of them but I plan to just spray a lot of carb cleaner back and forth inside them and blast them with 120 psi compressed air. I just sprayed some into them a little while ago.

Funny you mention the one long engine tin. I've seen pictures of it in Waynes engine book but my '87 doesn't have it and I don't even know where it's supposed to go. Maybe it was removed and lost before I got the car or something. I'll look into that some more...
Old 03-31-2014, 12:34 PM
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