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Update

All, I've tried all of the suggestions and if you've followed this thread I've changed many parts. I have fuel, I cracked the line at the fuel filter and on the fuel head and have fuel.

I have spark, I bought an HEI spark plug looking tester and their is consistent strong spark.

On the first crank it acts like it wants to start but won't... Anything else to try?

Ben
Old 05-15-2014, 08:50 PM
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Try advancing the timing.. maybe even one gear tooth on the distributor gear. You can always go back to where it was if thats not it.
Old 05-15-2014, 10:07 PM
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What does it say if you use 'start pilot' ? It's cheap and one of the first things I will use to see what it does. Changing many parts is useless if they are just fine!
Another question you didn't answer, do you smell fuel after cranking?
Try it and let us know.

Last edited by klefroid; 05-15-2014 at 10:50 PM..
Old 05-15-2014, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
Try advancing the timing.. maybe even one gear tooth on the distributor gear. You can always go back to where it was if thats not it.
I even think it should start if one tooth,or if not you will have misfire's (and the car did not when it stopped running. For us it's a good thing to try but it's not always a good thing to try as some people are not as experienced with these cars. Using the flash light thing? Not sure how it's named in English? The you can see the same thing even better without changing anything that can give more issue's.
Old 05-15-2014, 11:00 PM
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Did you check your CIS fuel pressures ? A clogged WUR could make the car way too lean and it wouldn't start.
If the control pressure is good and you hear the injectors when you press the metering plate, then your fuel should be OK.

For the sparks, where did you check with your tester ?
The stock Beru spark plug wires have threaded connectors and they can become loose.
I would remove the wire from the coil to the distributor, put a spark plug in it, ground the spark plug body and visually check for sparks.
If it's good, then check all the ends of the spark plug wires, make sure they're all the way in.
A loose spark plug or coil wire could damage a CDI box or coil, and you said you had a bad permatune.

Where are you located ?
Old 05-16-2014, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilonly View Post
I was going to say the ignition switch could be faulty. Just didn't want to send Ben on a wild goose chase, but it could be.
Can you elaborate on the function of the ignition switch in the circuit and what might cause intermittent failure like this.

Is there any way to test the ignition switch without just replacing it?

I am struggling with my own starting issues and have gone thru most of the other checks on the green wire and replaced relays, etc. but have not looked at the ignition switch or any wiring under the dashboard.

My fuel system is completely rebuilt and the WUR too so I think something is cutting the spark momentarily when trying to start the car and once it runs for a minute or 2 it stalls and wont restart.

Thanks,
Fred
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Old 05-22-2014, 02:15 PM
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Fred i have never had an ignition switch problem nor removed mine was just making a suggestion as the ignition switch has created starting problems for other posters here. Sorry.
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Old 05-22-2014, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by oilonly View Post
Fred i have never had an ignition switch problem nor removed mine was just making a suggestion as the ignition switch has created starting problems for other posters here. Sorry.
Thats ok. I was just looking for more detail on something that I might have missed. I did not consider the ignition switch might be the casue of the trouble I am having, yet.

Fred
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:45 AM
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had the same thing happen to me on my 86 930 turned out to be fuel pump fuse connector to panel
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Old 05-23-2014, 01:45 PM
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So to summarise;
You have spark at the plugs. Not sure about the tester thing you mention - but if you pull a plug and hook into HT lead you get spark when you crank it? Each time.
You have fuel - you have pulled an injector and watched fuel spray out - with key ON, plug at airplate pulled, and plate depressed?
Alan
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Old 05-25-2014, 02:12 PM
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Wow...back to ignition switched. The simple test is fuse #12 in the truck (count from the front of the car) should be 12 v when the ignition is on. Mine was 0 volts, the fuse sends power to the rear main connector to power up the CDI. My CDI never got 12 v with ignition on, so checked voltage at fuse #12. Since no voltage at #12 I jumped a wire from fuse #11, this then powered the CDI.

Remember some voltage is switched on by the ignition switch...when the ignition switch is bad no voltage is sent to the switched powered, like power mirrors or windows, or CDI, radio, etc..
Old 05-26-2014, 08:39 AM
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Update

Alan L, yes, there is spark. As far as I can tell there is fuel. I have not loosened an injector yet as they seem to be a bear to get to with the limited access. I have loosened the bolts at the fuel distributor and there is fuel.

My apologies as I have not had a chance to yet try other things people have recommended as I haven't had the time lately.

When I depress the air metering plate the pumps run, what is interesting is that it makes a shrill, shrieking noise at first.

Looking over the entire car i found the yellow wire connector to the thermo time switch broken off. I moved the pipe to the turbo out of the way and removed the thermo time switch. I then reattached the wire with the switch removed from the car and cranked the engine. The car stumbled to life for about 10 seconds - more than it has during this process.

Would the thermo time switch stop the car from running?

Ben
Old 05-27-2014, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bgravolet View Post
Alan L, yes, there is spark. As far as I can tell there is fuel. I have not loosened an injector yet as they seem to be a bear to get to with the limited access. I have loosened the bolts at the fuel distributor and there is fuel.

My apologies as I have not had a chance to yet try other things people have recommended as I haven't had the time lately.

When I depress the air metering plate the pumps run, what is interesting is that it makes a shrill, shrieking noise at first.

Looking over the entire car i found the yellow wire connector to the thermo time switch broken off. I moved the pipe to the turbo out of the way and removed the thermo time switch. I then reattached the wire with the switch removed from the car and cranked the engine. The car stumbled to life for about 10 seconds - more than it has during this process.

Would the thermo time switch stop the car from running?

Ben
Again , do you smell fuel true your exhaust when cranking?
If you have a spark then it's your fuel. at least if it's strong enough and about right on time.
Old 05-27-2014, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Looking over the entire car i found the yellow wire connector to the thermo time switch broken off. I moved the pipe to the turbo out of the way and removed the thermo time switch. I then reattached the wire with the switch removed from the car and cranked the engine. The car stumbled to life for about 10 seconds - more than it has during this process.

Would the thermo time switch stop the car from running?
The thermo time switch activates the cold start valve on start up for about ten seconds sending more fuel into your intake.
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Old 05-27-2014, 09:22 AM
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You only need to be able to lift one of the injectors. 4&5 aren't too bad to get at. I would want to be sure there is fuel squirting out of an injector at the point the car won't start.
Alan
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Old 05-27-2014, 12:06 PM
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klefroid, sorry I missed your question earlier. Do I smell fuel from the exhaust after cranking? Not really.

Fuel wise I've checked the flow at the filter and it's good, I've tried both relays and they work, both pumps seem to be active based on the sound and there is fuel if I loosen a bolt on top of the fuel distributor. On first start up it will catch occasionally - yesterday by running a wire to the thermo time switch to hook it up properly it ran, stumbling for about 10 seconds.

Ben
Old 05-27-2014, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Bgravolet View Post
klefroid, sorry I missed your question earlier. Do I smell fuel from the exhaust after cranking? Not really.

Fuel wise I've checked the flow at the filter and it's good, I've tried both relays and they work, both pumps seem to be active based on the sound and there is fuel if I loosen a bolt on top of the fuel distributor. On first start up it will catch occasionally - yesterday by running a wire to the thermo time switch to hook it up properly it ran, stumbling for about 10 seconds.

Ben
So your missing fuel. Your car died in a second while running.
If one fuel pump would fail then I don't think your car would die straight away without any response? Not sure (I had it one's (front) and my car brought me home)
Is it possible for you to check your fuel pressure?
Even if it's hard to get to a fuel injector,try to unscrew one. reconnect, stick it in a bottle and push the air plate under the air filter housing. See what it does.

Last edited by klefroid; 05-27-2014 at 12:56 PM..
Old 05-27-2014, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klefroid View Post
So your missing fuel. Your car died in a second while running.
If one fuel pump would fail then I don't think your car would die straight away without any response? Not sure (I had it one's (front) and my car brought me home)
Is it possible for you to check your fuel pressure?
Even if it's hard to get to a fuel injector,try to unscrew one. reconnect, stick it in a bottle and push the air plate under the air filter housing. See what it does.
And/or, have someone do that for you as you crank the engine. For all we know, the metering arm is hanging up and not deflecting enough to flow enough fuel. Push it down just a mm or so, hold it there, and crank away. I bet she'll keep running, though maybe somewhat rich.
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:36 PM
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if you have spark, my 930 had a bad fuel pressure regulator.
Old 06-09-2014, 01:41 PM
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Update

After spending considerable time working on the car my son and I found and diagnosed a potentially bad thermo time switch, a bad fuel pump relay and a bad yellow over boost relay.

The thermo time switch was merely unplugged on one side with a broken wire but we replaced it out of caution and age.

Now the car will start and stumble to life, run for about 10 seconds and die. Sometimes there is a smell of fuel in the back other times not. Fuel flow is as it should be based on the test where we filled a graduated beaker.

Is it now the speed relay under the seat?

Is there a way to jumper the speed relay to test before trying to find one? I can't seem to find one anywhere for sale.

Thank you all again for the help.

Ben
Old 06-20-2014, 06:03 AM
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