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1987 930 Won't Start

All, I was driving my 1987 930 Cabriolet and it hesitated and died - would not restart.

Unfortunately there aren't any mechanics locally who can fix the car so my son and I used the forums and diagnosed a bad CDI box. As it was a Permatune box, I replaced it with a Permatune box. Permatune said it was bad and I had a problem on the rear harness plug. Per their instructions I took apart the plug and cleaned it.

The car still doesn't run. Using advice from the forums I ordered the yellow relay in the back and two new fuel pump relays. I put those in and it acts like to wants to start but doesn't.

I jumped the number 6, fuel pump, fuse to the one next to it and turned the key. I could hear the front pump activate for a second. I did this three or four times and the car fired to life and then died.

Any help as to what to try next would be appreciated.

Thank you.
Old 05-02-2014, 10:10 AM
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Do the fuel pumps turn on for a sec when you turn the key on to IGN? Check over boost switch or temporarily ground it to bypass it.
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Old 05-02-2014, 10:16 AM
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Yes, the pumps turn on for just a second when I run a jumper wire from fuse 6 to fuse 7 and if I do it three or four times it will stumble to life and then die.

How do I jumper the overboost switch?
Old 05-02-2014, 10:24 AM
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Pull the white wire off the o/b switch and connect it to a ground source.
Don't rule out the green dizzy wire.
If you haven't done so check the "no start" sticky at the top of the page.
GL
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Old 05-02-2014, 10:31 AM
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One more diagnostic, to tell us if you can keep your pumps running. Pull off the blue connector on the back side of the fuel distributor (it connects to the micro switch which in turn is activated when the air flow/fuel metering arm is deflected, and in turn completes the various fuel pump electrical circuits). With it unplugged, your pumps should run continuously with the key in the on position. Alternatively, turn the key on and depress the metering arm via the mixture adjusting screw on top of the fuel head. Push it far enough and the pumps should start running (don't do this too long as you will be injecting fuel and flood the engine). If they still don't run- and since you've replaced the yellow relay already - then it may be time to fish around under the drivers seat for the overspeed relay (silver tin can with close to a dozen wires going into it). Many of us - myself included - have found that relay to be the source of similar non-starting. Clean the contacts, take it apart and re-solder the main contact points - or buy a new one for about $140.

Your problem doesn't sound ignition related, since she does fire briefly until it runs out of fuel.
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Old 05-02-2014, 10:54 AM
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Update

When I turn the key to the start position I would hear the pumps fire so I was going to do as Mark Haughton said and disconnect to the microswitch on the fuel distributor or press down on the plate to see if the pumps keep running... But I thought to check the fuses first.

The brass bar that connects the fuel pump fuse and the one adjacent looked like it was sitting high so I loosened the top screws and pushed the bar down and retightened... BAD MOVE! Now the fuel pump doesn't fire anymore when the key os moved to the start position!

I put in new fuses and put everything bad how it was and the fuel pumps don't fire at all.

I put a multimeter on the battery and it read 12.7 volts. With the key off I put the multimeter from the bottom screw of 6 to the bottom crew of fuse 7 and got 11.5 volts. With the key in the on position there is no voltage at all across the same bottom screws. While cranking no voltage across the bottom. i even tried jumpering the yellow relay and nothing.

Any ideas?
Old 05-02-2014, 04:24 PM
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Update

Thank you all for the advice. I've checked the ignition switch as Noah mentioned and nothing. I grounded the overboost relay and checked all the connections at the fuse panel and the pumps don't turn on when I turn the key. The pumps don't turn on at all.
Old 05-03-2014, 09:15 PM
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Sounds like a flat battery ,
swap in a friends battery out of working car or jumper it see how that goes.

If it kicks and voltage is same as yours then that will show bad current flow from your battery terminals before it even reaches the Fuse panel

A Run down Battery will give you all the symptoms you've described.
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Old 05-04-2014, 02:37 AM
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Sounds like a flat battery ,
swap in a friends battery out of working car or jumper it see how that goes.

If it kicks and voltage is same as yours then that will show bad current flow from your battery terminals before it even reaches the Fuse panel

A Run down Battery will give you all the symptoms you've described.
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Old 05-04-2014, 02:38 AM
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Update

Officially confused...

Fuel pumps worked and ran continuously when pushing down the metering plate,then they didn't. The relays for the fuel pumps sometimes work and sometimes don't. The car has spark and then it doesn't. The fuel pumps can be working when the car has no spark. The fuel pumps can be working when the car has spark and still it won't start.

Is this electrical?

So far replaced premature box, fuel pump relays, coil and yellow relay.

Confused...
Old 05-04-2014, 05:46 PM
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Id like to offer better advice but im in in a similar boat with electrical stuff that im trying to figure out..ive stripped my fusebox down to nothing and adding one wire at a time, soldering the end and attaching best i can to each connector that ive rubbed the inside out with wet and dry paper and a dremel because i dont want to have to trouble shoot this area again,
I have found out though Fuel pump relays and associated wiring can give issues even when you think the wiring is connected well sometime it isnt .

Even a wire from another application could have come undone and is swinging freely behind th fuse panel occasionally touching back of pump relays you never know with these cars.

IF it was me i would undo the Fuse panel and look behind check EVERY wire, cos if a pump wire can give problems so can another and another, pumps could be a symptom, so might pay to look somewhere else.. A Quarter of century of Vibration can have an effect

MY highbeams didnt work so i went through all the wires and found lots of problems from po's

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Old 05-04-2014, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bgravolet View Post
Officially confused...

Fuel pumps worked and ran continuously when pushing down the metering plate,then they didn't. The relays for the fuel pumps sometimes work and sometimes don't. The car has spark and then it doesn't. The fuel pumps can be working when the car has no spark. The fuel pumps can be working when the car has spark and still it won't start.

Is this electrical?

So far replaced premature box, fuel pump relays, coil and yellow relay.

Confused...
On those new relays you bought open up the prongs a little with a fine blade to make sure you are getting good contact. I noticed some of these new relays have prongs that are narrower than the old original ones. Plus make sure that fuse is positioned properly. I never liked the single fuse and switched to two fuses and feel the car runs better. Here is the thread on how to do it.

930 Fuel Pump Fuse Overload - The Solution

Plus some stuff to read and maybe help you.

Intermittent fuel/starting problems

Trouble cold starting
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Old 05-04-2014, 06:43 PM
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Update

I tried several things with no luck.

I unplugged the plug from the fuel distributor and the pumps run constantly with the key on and it didn't start. It tried to briefly but didn't catch.

I removed the silver relay in back, drawing a blank on the name, and jumpered 30 and L and it didn't start.

I unplugged the silver relay (overspeed?) under the seat and the pumps did not run. Car did not start.

Grounded the overboost switch and the car did not start.

Checked the green wire on the distributor and it seems to be fine. No signs of cracking or fraying.

New Permatune box, new coil. Seems sometimes I have spark other times not.

Any ideas?

Thank you in advance,
Ben
Old 05-06-2014, 07:26 PM
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I think you have to start over again. The easiest way to test the fuel pumps is by unplugging the
blue connector on the back side of the fuel distributor like mark said. if they work unscrew 1 injector. turn key in on position without using the starter motor.then try to press down the metering plate and see if fuel comes out? Do you smell fuel after attempts to start the engine?
Be carefully when playing with fuel. It's not your battery. If your engine cut's off while driving because of your battery you would not be able to turn over the starter motor.
You have to know which way to go for is it fuel or not before you make more problems! don't just screw on something your not sure off. Finding 1 problem is not easy but finding 2 of them is hard. do you have a manual the make the right adjusting to the fuel head?

Last edited by klefroid; 05-07-2014 at 03:25 PM..
Old 05-07-2014, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by klefroid View Post
I think you have to start over again. The easiest way to test the fuel pumps is by unplugging the
blue connector on the back side of the fuel distributor like mark said. if they work unscrew 1 injector. turn key in on position without using the starter motor.then try to press down the metering plate and see if fuel comes out? Do you smell fuel after attempts to start the engine?
Be carefully when playing with fuel. It's not your battery. If your engine cut's off while driving because of your battery you would not be able to turn over the starter motor.
You have to know which way to go for, is it fuel or not before you make more problems! don't just screw on something you not sure off. Finding 1 problem is not easy but finding 2 of them is hard. do you have a manual the make the right adjusting to the fuel head?
Good advice. Tail chasing leads to more tail chasing. There's definitely something funky going on.
Seems to be related to the earlier post where he monkeyed with the fuse panel and nothing worked thereafter...but now the pumps do run? Hmmm. If the pumps can be kept running, then fuel must flow if the metering arm is depressed far enough. Does the metering arm move freely, or is it stuck?
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:29 PM
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Hi Mark, the metering arm moves freely.

Feeling stupid I even checked for gas and the tank is 3/4 full.

I've removed one relay at a time and that respective pump stops. I believe I have the factory manual set, does it show the locations of all the grounds? Just before I purchased the car the lady I bought it from said she had some wiring work done! Scary!

The only thing the car seems to do consistently is have intermittent spark. I use an HEI spark tester and sometimes it lights it up constantly, other times it fires occasionally and other times not at all. So at one point I believe I had a fuel and spark problem, now I believe it's spark related. I have a new Permatune and coil.

On a side note, this car had three previous owners and they all died young! The widow I bought the car from believed the car was possessed! Got a good price though ...

Ben
Old 05-07-2014, 03:37 PM
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Hello Ben,

You can't die in a car that doesn't run...well generally speaking that is. Possesed sheet metal, I don't think so.

However, 30 years of idiots & vibration cause all kinds of grief.

Nobody has yet asked if you've checked your engine ground cable at the transmission, your battery ground in the front trunk, or your starter wire connection at the starter. Any or all of these can cause odd symptoms.

Just throwing it out there!

Mark
Old 05-07-2014, 06:20 PM
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Ben

I have similar problems. I found a seized front fuel pump after putting 12v to it and nothing. Replaced front pump, rear pump fine, then pulled gas filter, very clogged up, replaced. But when I pull the blue plug apart, my pumps do not run because maybe the system is full of gas...needs no more...I plan to pull a injector to see if I get gas. I thought the gas issues was behind me.
Then I got no spark, took a voltmeter to the pin 15 on the CDI box and no power. The power comes from the delayed action relay. So I voltmeter this connector and found one pin at 12v, this comes from the alternator, but the switched 12v pin feeding the CDI is no volts. I tested the silver relay or the delayed action relay and it works fine in my other car...

You need to start using a voltmeter to find voltage on these connectors ....otherwise you do not know..where I am stumped is why no voltage to CDI, my schematic is hard to read but...anybody knows where the switched 12v comes from to feed the CDI?
Old 05-07-2014, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by full quack View Post
Hello Ben,

You can't die in a car that doesn't run...well generally speaking that is. Possesed sheet metal, I don't think so.

However, 30 years of idiots & vibration cause all kinds of grief.

Nobody has yet asked if you've checked your engine ground cable at the transmission, your battery ground in the front trunk, or your starter wire connection at the starter. Any or all of these can cause odd symptoms.

Just throwing it out there!

Mark
...and I was just about to suggest that...particularly the starter wire connection where a lot of the juice originates! You beat me to it, Mark. Something intermittent going on here.....bad connections may be the ticket.
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:12 PM
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I was going to say the ignition switch could be faulty. Just didn't want to send Ben on a wild goose chase, but it could be.
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:25 PM
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