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77/ 930 viper green sale; price advice needed

I have now 2 1977 3.0 Turbos
One may be go so i need help to find the right Price for the Car.

Its a 1977 3.0 USA Turbo with a 1977 ROW Turbo Engine ( 677XXX )
The Car is still in his original Color rare viper green met.

Interieur needs work

Body is rustfree, Car runs and drive, no oil leaks.

So what it will be worth.?????

Thanks for help.
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:03 PM
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:15 PM
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that paint is original and in good shape, or it is just the original color?

I would think VG would be extremely desirable, so maybe big bux. Cars seem to be worth about 2x what I think they should be, so lets start the bidding at 80k if the car is complete and in mostly good shape. If the [aint is original and the bodywork is excellent probably six figures, even with the wrong tail and engine
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:31 PM
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Wait a minute? Original engine? Confused about US then ROW.
Old 05-06-2014, 06:11 PM
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Old 05-06-2014, 06:29 PM
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USA Car with Euro Engine??

Worth probably as much as a comparable condition normal 911 then??

I feel the premium has been lost if the original engine is out and gone, if original engine went because of damage etc, might get prospective buyers worrying about the rest of the cars condition because if a Turbos engine been thrashed to the point of replacement ....?
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:02 PM
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The Car is one time painted in his original color, no sign of accident or rust or Bodywork.

The Vin is 9307800XXX and the Engine 677xxx is replaced in the 90s, but the Engine is a original ROW correct 77 Turbo Engine.
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:26 PM
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I haven't seen too many sales of early 930s with replacement engines to benchmark, but as a rule of thumb I've seen other air cooled 911s that have a year/model correct replacement engine sell for 10-20% less than a matching numbers car. As others mentioned there's the incorrect tail and perhaps other items (eg flat rather than snorkel headlight washers) that will add to this, but on the flip side you probably will get some premium for viper green as a rare color.

So I'm guessing if everything else checks out you might be pretty close to a numbers matching 3.0L 930 in comparable condition (e.g. respray, some non-original parts) in a more common color (silver/red/black). Might not break $100K but wouldn't surprise me if you're patient and found somebody who really wanted a VG 930 if it got pretty close ($80-100K).
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:07 AM
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My suspicion is that Lee is right, 10 - 20 % for the replacement engine, and judging from photos a few deviations from original, and the car appears to be a nice driver rather than a show car. Maybe as much as a 5 - 10% premium though for the rare colour, and I think that $80 - 100k range is probably quite accurate.

Is the headliner missing? You might want to think about tidying up a few of those type of things before selling. Engine stickers, original tail, you can even buy the snorkels reproduction from Dr. Konradsheim. I would also reinstall the original steering wheel. Is the original stereo there? I don't see the part above the console.
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:46 AM
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Wow, why are these in your opinion worth so much more then the 1978 model with 3.3 engine, bigger brakes and intercooler? Makes no sense to me, the theory of being the early ones is not enough...
Old 05-07-2014, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by wgwollet View Post
Wow, why are these in your opinion worth so much more then the 1978 model with 3.3 engine, bigger brakes and intercooler? Makes no sense to me, the theory of being the early ones is not enough...
You're right that the 3.3L cars may be more desirable from a driving standpoint for all the reasons you note. But from a collector standpoint, the 3.0L ('75-77) 930s are viewed as more desirable and therefore trade at a material premium than 3.3L ('78-89) 930s. The reasons for "collectibility" are of course subjective, but some reasons probably include:

1) Rarity - total of 2,799 3.0L cars built vs nearly 20,000 3.3L cars

2) Older - you're right older/earlier doesn't necessarily mean more valuable but in conjunction w/ rarity, often the earliest versions of a production series are among the most valuable in terms of long term collectibility. For contemporary examples to the 930, you can look at how the original "periscopo" Lamborghini Countach's from mid '70s sell for 2-3x the later series built in the '80s. Similarly the earliest Ferrari 308s from late '70s ("vetroresina" types, aka fiberglass bodied) sell for a lot more than the later series 308s produced in '80s.

3) Racing heritage - all 930s are obviously pretty closely related, but arguably the 3.0L cars were spawned by the Turbo RSR and a more direct cousin to the 934/935 race cars that had so much success at Le Mans and elsewhere than the 3.3L cars.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:05 AM
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Drivability is a subjective matter.
The upgrades/additional equipment of the 3.3, could also be viewed as clutter and weight.
The 3.0 is a different experience from the 3.3.....every conclusion about practicality and drivability, derived from that fact, is a matter of personal preference.
That collectors will ultimately favor early cars, regardless of previous market conventions, is almost a law of nature.
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:01 AM
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Wow, why are these in your opinion worth so much more then the 1978 model with 3.3 engine, bigger brakes and intercooler? Makes no sense to me, the theory of being the early ones is not enough...
Bill, there is more to your reasoning. As you all can see by the production chart there were less 1978 930s built than either year 1976 or 1977 930s. So if many think that rarity is a factor, well the 1978 for the less numbers built along with the first year for intercooler, better brakes etc, etc. I have both 77 and 78 930s so i get the benefit of the final conclusion either way. Personally over the years I have bought modded ones as a preference to drive ( modded as close to a 934 or 935 as I could find) but like original ones also.

MAJOR HYJACK below, sorry

Oh Paul, I put your 7 & 9 Fuchs with Kuhmo tires on the 79 Alan Johnson 930. No flat spots noticed on regular ( not smooth race track ) roads. I think he would approve of the upgraded wheels as 9 inch Fuchs rears not available when AJ built it in 82-83 with the factory Weltmeister race suspension, is a noticeable positive difference.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:55 AM
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Great looking car and should go for real good &&&& even with the ROW motor.... One thing, from angle in picture, looks like the later 3.3 front valance with fog lights integral, not the early stlye type.

Jimmy
Old 05-07-2014, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by voitureltd View Post
As you all can see by the production chart there were less 1978 930s built than either year 1976 or 1977 930s. So if many think that rarity is a factor, well the 1978 for the less numbers built along with the first year
I counted production numbers 1212 in 1976, 1226 in 1978. Perhaps couldn't see the numbers though, as my screen is small.

Another facet is comparing "major versions" against "minor versions". The more minor versions we look at, the smaller the numbers get, which then gives a somewhat misleading picture.

A very nice 930 in this thread, and the color is so cool.
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:38 AM
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Has that engine been under water/flood?
Old 05-07-2014, 10:56 AM
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[QUOTE=Highway-Star;8053101]I counted production numbers 1212 in 1976, 1226 in 1978. Perhaps couldn't see the numbers though, as my screen is small.

Actually 1184 in 76, 1703 in 77 and 1226 in 78 as the numbers included the 28 to Japan in 76 and the 49 in 77 but not include the the 50 to Japan in 78. So least produced is 75 then 76 then 78 and then 77. Plus the 30 RSR 934 in 76 the 10 RSR 934 and 13 RSR 935s in 77 and then 25 more RSR 935s in 78. So is a 930 the base model for the 934 & 935 to meet the Race rules, Must be. Another possible reason for properly modded 930s ( especially with Porsche Motorsports parts ) other than the factory cars to have value.
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Old 05-07-2014, 11:47 AM
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back to the OP's question, i'm thinking 90k.
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:02 PM
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I'd say 60K MAX as it needs a full restoration, to get any premium for being an early car.

- wrong engine (ROW)
- wrong tail
- prob. no airpump / smog equip (see missing things in the engine left side)
- wrong headlight washers
- headliner destroyed (or is the picture weird)
- clearly been painted, including the interior a column (original paint has a sticker there describing the paint)
- wrong steering wheel
- cables hang from the cockpit, seems in need of sorting there
- engine seems tired. And why would any previous owner add a 3.3 tail wothout adding the intercooler?
- wrong fog lights / front valance
- the fron wheel stance looks really weird, see image 2

If that cars worth anywhere near 80K, every original condition 2 77 3.0 US has just reached 180K IMHO
Old 05-07-2014, 03:12 PM
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Production in 1978 is only 461 for USA, I have car 414...I have been working....some have seen the car...
Old 05-07-2014, 05:04 PM
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