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aka 'vageen'
 
unclebilly's Avatar
 
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Oil leak - turbo vent line?

I have searched and think the scavenge pump could be my problem... Maybe my turbo is shot?

So here is what I have...

86 Euro 930
Garretson Intrcooler
K27 turbo
Cams...

A year ago I was under boost and noticed a big cloud of smoke behind me so I pulled over to discover oil everywhere.

I initially thought the problem was my turbo oil line. I fixed it and the problem persisted. I replaced the turbo oil line, cleaned everything up really well and then the car had a massive vaccuum leak so I parked it and enjoyed my 76 for the summer.

I recently fixed the vaccuum leak (torn o-ring on the throttle body) and got it back together. It runs great but the turbo tank oil vent line is puking oil out under boost. If I drive the car like an old lady and keep it under .2 bar, it doesn't loose any oil (I am also keeping it under 2500 rpm). My vent hose terminated up by the deck lid hinge and has a 1" K&N filter on it.

Why did this happen all the sudden?

Here are my thoughts on what could possibly the issue...

1. Turbo seals are shot.
2. Scavenge pump drive pin broke.
3. When I changed out the turbo oil line, the 9mm ball didn't go back in... I know I put it back in there...
4. Maybe the turbo oil line wasnt the culprit initially and only had a small leak...
5. Coked up oil line between scavenge pump and tank...

What are your thoughts? How can I figure out what to tear into first?
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76 930 - featured in Sept 2013 Pano
77 911S Wide Body GT2 WCMA race car
86 930 Slantnose - featured in Mar-Apr 2016 Classic Porsche
Yoosta have: 90 C4 Targa, 87 944, 73 911 ChumpCar endurance racer - featured in May-June & July-Aug 2016 Classic Porsche

Last edited by unclebilly; 05-13-2014 at 10:35 PM..
Old 05-13-2014, 09:09 PM
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Could I just tee the turbo tank vent line into the line that runs from the elbow at the top of the engine between the throttle body and turbo and the oil tank?
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76 930 - featured in Sept 2013 Pano
77 911S Wide Body GT2 WCMA race car
86 930 Slantnose - featured in Mar-Apr 2016 Classic Porsche
Yoosta have: 90 C4 Targa, 87 944, 73 911 ChumpCar endurance racer - featured in May-June & July-Aug 2016 Classic Porsche
Old 05-13-2014, 09:15 PM
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Ok so I read the ubiquitous hoyabear thread from 2009... Oil Scavenging Problems

I'm going to start by looking for coking in my scavenge pump lines.

I did hear boiling in the exhaust when I shut it down tonight... Which makes me wonder if the 9mm ball is missing.
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76 930 - featured in Sept 2013 Pano
77 911S Wide Body GT2 WCMA race car
86 930 Slantnose - featured in Mar-Apr 2016 Classic Porsche
Yoosta have: 90 C4 Targa, 87 944, 73 911 ChumpCar endurance racer - featured in May-June & July-Aug 2016 Classic Porsche

Last edited by unclebilly; 05-13-2014 at 10:36 PM..
Old 05-13-2014, 10:15 PM
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Your condition is beyond a missing 9mm ball bearing at the turbocharger oil source. That's usually just a very big oil puff on start up (oil bypassing turbocharger's seals into intake and/or exhaust, getting burned).

Scavenge pump test:
1) Remove drain canister, allow turbocharger to drain into a canister so you can monitor the oil level.
2) Extend the scavenge hose to stick down into this canister, below the oil level.
3) Start the engine, monitor the oil level. Check it at idle, around 2,500rpm, and around 4,500rpm.
Regardless of rpm, the oil level should go down QUICKLY. The scavenge pump far out-paces the turbocharger oil delivery.

If it does suck out the oil quickly, you have a failing turbocharger.

If it does not out-pace the oil supply, either
a) re-seal the scavenge pump
b) check scavenge lines for restriction (very unlikely)

Please update with your results.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:04 PM
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it is to my understanding that this is a common issue on the 930 turbo.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:08 PM
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regarding cams

I just installed SC cams (Chris, they came from Bodart from you originally I believe - was going to PM you w/ this query but since yer 'here' I'll share it here).

When reinstalling the scavenge pump, we measured the drive pin was not fully seating deep enough in between the heads of the two allen bolts mounted into the cam end. Had to add a pair of washers to each bolt to bring them out toward the drive pin so they'd get sufficient purchase.

thoughts: SC cams when converted to turbo may have insufficient material added to the end, making the bolts too 'short' to catch the drive pin?

Pull the pump and inspect the condition of the pin, bolt heads, then measure that the pin is receiving full purchase.

Just a thought. Good luck...
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '08 M3 6gang vert |
past:

| '07 S6 | '98 M3 vert | '01 M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 S8 | '95 S6 6gang | '88 M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 05-14-2014, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ@Fabspeed View Post
it is to my understanding that this is a common issue on the 930 turbo.
Nope - not even close to common.
Old 05-14-2014, 07:55 PM
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I plan to tear into this on Tuesday.

Here is my plan of attack - straighten me out if you think I am on the wrong track...

1. I'm going to do the scavenge pump test first. If the pump isn't keeping up I'll move to 2. If the pump does keep up, I'll pull the turbo and rebuild it.
2. Since I have to disconnect the other end of the line, I'll check the feed line to the pump next for blockage. If it is good, I'll move to 3.
3. Remove pump and check for pin engagement. If this is good, I'll move to 4.
4. Check for blockage in the pump discharge line. If this is good, I will rebuild the pump.
5. If none of this works, I will tee the line into the oil vent line on the top of the engine so it dumps oil into the engine. I'll use an inline filter.

Thoughts?
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76 930 - featured in Sept 2013 Pano
77 911S Wide Body GT2 WCMA race car
86 930 Slantnose - featured in Mar-Apr 2016 Classic Porsche
Yoosta have: 90 C4 Targa, 87 944, 73 911 ChumpCar endurance racer - featured in May-June & July-Aug 2016 Classic Porsche
Old 05-14-2014, 11:39 PM
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Paul -- those are factory SC cams we removed from a client's EFI 930 to install much bigger cams.
We've seen that before, having to put washers under the heads of the allen bolts in order to fully engage the pump's drive pin. THis is for when the pump is mounted directly to the cam housing.
If you are still using the air injection pulley, you need a shim. We have one, can mail it to you if you need it.
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:01 AM
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great thanks Chris - we were concerned the pulley inner face may have interference to the tower / tin... felt 'ok' but...

let me know if you don't have my addy - very cool of you as usual

there seemed to be more (!) than enough thread on the bolts to pull them out, 3 washers per now

wish I weren't still using the pulley - I had brief (brief) delusions of devising some sort of slim and trim bracket/boss to affix the pump-proper to the tower, binning the entire 'belt' housing - simple enough - surpluosity, begone!

where's Proffighter when we need him 8-)!

alas, I just got to get it back together @ this point

just 8-)

thanks again for the insight / help!
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '08 M3 6gang vert |
past:

| '07 S6 | '98 M3 vert | '01 M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 S8 | '95 S6 6gang | '88 M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |

Last edited by krasuskyp; 05-15-2014 at 11:14 AM..
Old 05-15-2014, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krasuskyp View Post
great thanks Chris - we were concerned the pulley inner face may have interference to the tower / tin... felt 'ok' but...

let me know if you don't have my addy - very cool of you as usual

there seemed to be more (!) than enough thread on the bolts to pull them out, 3 washers per now

wish I weren't still using the pulley - I had brief (brief) delusions of devising some sort of slim and trim bracket/boss to affix the pump-proper to the tower, binning the entire 'belt' housing - simple enough - surpluosity, begone!

where's Proffighter when we need him 8-)!

alas, I just got to get it back together @ this point

just 8-)

thanks again for the insight / help!
Sorry, did not thought my knowledge is needed here... Concerning pump drive etc... check my posts here about spacer, sealing:

Sealing Ring - Scavenge pump question
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930 Turbo '81 Too many modifications to list
Old 05-15-2014, 02:38 PM
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Also this thread about my spacer:

Confused on sc cams???



hope this answer your questions

Or did I read not correctly. If so, tell me
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Roland

930 Turbo '81 Too many modifications to list
Old 05-15-2014, 02:42 PM
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Problem solved...

I jacked up the car and removed the drivers side rear tire and set about cracking the flare fitting in the oil line from the drip tank to the scavenge pump only to find the fitting was not even finger tight... I tightened this up, reinstalled the tire, cleaned up the oil slick and took the car for a rip!

It's fixed! And it's awesome!
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76 930 - featured in Sept 2013 Pano
77 911S Wide Body GT2 WCMA race car
86 930 Slantnose - featured in Mar-Apr 2016 Classic Porsche
Yoosta have: 90 C4 Targa, 87 944, 73 911 ChumpCar endurance racer - featured in May-June & July-Aug 2016 Classic Porsche
Old 05-20-2014, 11:02 PM
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