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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midlife930 View Post
My parts list from memory.
Piece of about 4" dia aluminum tube with a plate welded on the bottom and rad cap on top.
Rad cap from a local speed shop & tube from Metal Supermarkets.
Teflon lined braided hose and flair fittings from an industrial supply house.
Pump is an Audi after run coolant circulation part & in line thermostat either from Summit or speed shop & I used a Bosch BMW relay for the power.
The actual radiator is a small stacked plate style oil cooler probably intended as a power steering cooler. I run Water Wetter in distilled water.
The rad is behind the fender support in the left rear of the car under the fender.

When I come in off the track and check temps of the reservoir I see around 200F. But expect the cool down lap takes maybe 10 or 20 off of the peak on track temps.
Dave
Thank you..
Old 05-15-2014, 12:33 PM
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I wonder if you could shroud the radiator and blow it in as cabin heat through the heater box/es for those without heat. Probably a silly idea
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:06 PM
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Good idea but I doubt there would be much heat in normal driving situations. Maybe some but not much.
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Old 05-15-2014, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
The paper takes a position that water cooling is essential, yet this is contrary to what some of their engineers have told us. Interesting.
Interesting, but not really all that surprising.
The manufacturer will always take a official conservative approach for legal and warranty reasons.
IMO, the cooling ports are there for a reason. Might as well use them.
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:22 AM
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No need to overdo on the cooling flow. Around 2.5 gal/min is plenty at 2 to 3 psi. There are a number of power steering coolers that are ideal for radiators.
Old 05-16-2014, 10:40 AM
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ok who is going to be the first one to build a kit...... or at least a complete parts list with sources.....
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
No need to overdo on the cooling flow. Around 2.5 gal/min is plenty at 2 to 3 psi. There are a number of power steering coolers that are ideal for radiators.
Would you want larger hoses and radiator tubing as well as greater fluid mass if trying to establish passive convection cooling?
Old 05-16-2014, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sjf911 View Post
Would you want larger hoses and radiator tubing as well as greater fluid mass if trying to establish passive convection cooling?
I would guess not; if I'm thinking about this right. The slower velocity of the gravity system would keep the same water molecules in the cooler for a longer period of time, the pump would send more through but it's cooled for less time.
Expansion would be a pain though. Any air at the top of the system (radiator) and the gravity system probably stops, whereas the pump would push through it.
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Old 05-16-2014, 01:19 PM
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I haven't had a problem with Garrett or most turbochargers.

1. ) Doubtful, but operating outside or exceeding efficacy zones will result in heat.

2. ) Your exhaust system could be restrictive at a particular point and when you get into prolonged high rpm usage such as on a track this could raise exhaust gas temps.

3. ) Upon installation, you did not prime the turbo with oil. It theoretically ran dry. Or you have some form of oil flow / feed starvation. Possibly too much pressure. I have seen that. You want flow but massive oil pressure.

4. ) 500mi is definitely abnormal. Defect from who or wherever you sourced your turbo.

A lot of variables. All depends. Those are things to consider.

In terms of cooling. Oil is the blood life. If you aren't receiving it or enough bad Ju Ju all day. Assuming all of the above is not applicable.
You could add a small mechanical or electric water pump. A small radiator seems most logical with a fan and thermo.

Something's up. You need to triple check. A lot of machines run lean AFR's or some of which run retarded amounts ignition advance.

Good Luck -
Old 05-19-2014, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atcjorg View Post
ok who is going to be the first one to build a kit...... or at least a complete parts list with sources.....
Piecing together a kit is easy: reservoir, pump, lines & fittings, small cooler... no problem. BTDT.

Doing a kit that everyone can install in his car, doesn't require cutting into the chassis or extensively cutting up the sheetmetal, clears everything else on all models 1976-89 (or through 1994) regardless or other mods (turbo selection, exhaust, air intake, etc), doesn't make regular engine service more difficult...

Now it's starting to become a challenge.
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Old 05-19-2014, 03:38 PM
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Chris is right with the advice he received regarding water cooling and turbos applied to 911 motors, it is not required.
On most engines turbos are applied on short runner cast manifolds. It is the large heat sink these manifolds represent on shutdown that provides the thermal load requiring additional cooling. Since 911 based motors all run tubing manifolds these radiate their heat quickly so temps do not climb to unmanageable levels.
There is still the problem of coking during hot shutdown if the owner is still stuck in the dark ages and runs (burns) dyno oil. Turbos are not compatable with dyno oils period, never have been. The turbine end is too hot during operation and especially after shutdown.
No automotive turbocharger company will tell you this but it is a fact. As long as car companies tell their customers their engines can run dyno based oils , turbo companies will say their products will tolerate it also.

Last edited by copbait73; 05-19-2014 at 08:00 PM..
Old 05-19-2014, 07:56 PM
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Ball bearing turbos are not even available without water cooled housings. They didn't create that tech note for nothing. There probably are usage cycles that allow a non-water cooled housing to live, for awhile, but I have seen several now that have been cooked on a 930. The manifold theory is not accurate. The turbine housing has enough mass on its own to overheat the center section.
Old 05-19-2014, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Squirrel View Post
Ball bearing turbos are not even available without water cooled housings. They didn't create that tech note for nothing. There probably are usage cycles that allow a non-water cooled housing to live, for awhile, but I have seen several now that have been cooked on a 930. The manifold theory is not accurate. The turbine housing has enough mass on its own to overheat the center section.
You are wrong in your assumptions. I told you 911 engines are unique. Since virtually all other applications need cooling they standardize the product with water cooled center housings. There was a time in the turbo reman business where all small turbos got water cooled bearing housings simply because there was an overstock of that type of housing.
I doubt you saw any cooked that ran synthetic oil. If they failed in very short order they were defective from the start ( a very high percentage) and if later do to causes Chis listed and not over temperature at the bearing
Ball bearings are all the rage because the aftermarket and their customers think they have value. They are sold on statements like all the high level race teams use them, Audi, Porsche, etc. What you are not told is these teams do not use the same turbos offered to you. Their turbos come from racing support enterprises, usually an extension of their lab operations. They pay thousands of dollars for their hand built, high precision assemblies.
There are virtually zero high volumn commercial applications to point to and say see ball bearings are the bomb! Water-cooling solves the problems introduced by use of cheap oil.
Old 05-20-2014, 05:19 AM
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Two more excellent and informative posts from copbait73. I love it.

FWIW, most of the IMSA race teams in the USA going back to the 935 and 962 days have been having their turbo's rebuilt by Durabilt for many years now.
They make custom parts if they are needed and they have the expensive VSR balancing machine.

They've updated their website with videos of it.
Durabilt-Turbo.com - www.durabilt-turbo.com

Durabilt-Turbo low speed turbo balancing - YouTube

Durabilt Turbo - High Speed VSR Balancing - YouTube
Old 05-20-2014, 05:51 AM
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Calm down. I don't assume anything have measured the outer race temperature with thermocouples using the Honeywell recommended practice. The outer race exceeds the 300c long term limit, and the 350c short term limit. These are material limits (loss of temper). This is without water cooling, on a 930. The cooked turbos were running synthetic, and the failures were in material, not lubrication.
Old 05-20-2014, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Squirrel View Post
Calm down. I don't assume anything have measured the outer race temperature with thermocouples using the Honeywell recommended practice. The outer race exceeds the 300c long term limit, and the 350c short term limit. These are material limits (loss of temper). This is without water cooling, on a 930. The cooked turbos were running synthetic, and the failures were in material, not lubrication.
Really? .....then you have it all figured out, until your next failure.
Old 05-20-2014, 03:18 PM
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For those in colder climates, would freezing be an issue or is some sort of antifreeze being used?
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Old 05-20-2014, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speednme1 View Post
For those in colder climates, would freezing be an issue or is some sort of antifreeze being used?
I think it would be mandatory.
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Old 05-20-2014, 05:30 PM
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