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GT35R water cooling systems

Does anyone make a water cooling system for the Garret GT35 turbo for the 911?
Old 05-14-2014, 06:00 AM
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I would be too cheap to buy one.

I'd just buy a tank, 12V water pump, Parker Push-Lok hose, and a small heat exchanger along with fittings.

Couldn't cost a whole lot.

I just like to do things my way.
Old 05-14-2014, 07:05 AM
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Don't need it, been running these turbos for years, no problem at all.
Old 05-14-2014, 08:25 AM
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Couldn't you run a passive system without a pump? Just rely on convection with a small radiator and an expansion chamber?
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjf911 View Post
Couldn't you run a passive system without a pump? Just rely on convection with a small radiator and an expansion chamber?
Garrett says you can
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Couldn't you run a passive system without a pump? Just rely on convection with a small radiator and an expansion chamber?
Oh yeah, that's right.

Only matters at shutdown, right?
Old 05-14-2014, 09:19 AM
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Yeah sorta but even if it was running I'm sure the passive system would flow something.
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:50 AM
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When I put my GT35R in I went ahead and set up a small cooling system.
Small tank with a rad cap, pump, thermostat and heat exchanger.
On with ignition and it runs after shut down until the water cools to 180F
When I come off track the pump runs 5 to 15 minutes depending on ambient.
I very much like having the system cool the turbo rather than simply allowing the heat to soak off. I use braided lines as it is a track car.

Dave
Old 05-14-2014, 09:58 AM
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I have often wondered why this is not done more.

that is an interedting catch tank setup
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:27 AM
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That's Brian's catch can modified to fit the wastegate muffler.
Old 05-14-2014, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midlife930 View Post
When I put my GT35R in I went ahead and set up a small cooling system.
Small tank with a rad cap, pump, thermostat and heat exchanger.
On with ignition and it runs after shut down until the water cools to 180F
When I come off track the pump runs 5 to 15 minutes depending on ambient.
I very much like having the system cool the turbo rather than simply allowing the heat to soak off. I use braided lines as it is a track car.

Dave
Do you think you could give me some detailed picks of the set up and a list of the parts you used ?

The reason I want to do this is the 1st gt35r lasted 500 miles. I guess I smoked the seals. I was blowing smoke. It is out getting rebuilt and I don't want to run into this again.
I know some guys run there's with no issues but I don't want this to be a ongoing problem

Thanks John
Old 05-14-2014, 12:00 PM
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Where are you guys mounting the radiator?
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:10 PM
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Yes, you can build a passive cooling system.

Yes, it really only matters after shutoff, and preventing heat soak after shutoff will extend the turbocharger life.

John -
These do not heat soak any more or any less than a K-series turbocharger. It doesn't sound like you're sure why specifically your turbocharger failed, and unless you determine that, the cooling system may be in vain. Your rebuilt turbocharger may not last any longer.
The most common causes of turbocharger failure on a 930:
- FOD (foreign object damage). A chipped, dented, or broken blade is a clear indicator.
- excessive EGTs -- too lean, not enough ignition timing
- heat soak -- hot shut off
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:49 PM
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Ball bearings are more sensitive to heat, both under load and after shutdown.

Read the following technical note from Garrett for accurate info. I have seen a few GT35's cooked to death now.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/sites/default/files/Garrett_White_Paper_01_Water_Cooling.pdf
Old 05-14-2014, 02:01 PM
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Thanks for the link, that's a good white paper, clear explanations and actually useful data, i.e. target maximum inlet water temperature (250F), maximum CHRA rotation angle (20deg), etc.
The paper takes a position that water cooling is essential, yet this is contrary to what some of their engineers have told us. Interesting.
There's no arguing that water cooling would help longevity, of course, but we have 11 years experience with these saying it isn't essential.

Where is the part that explains how ball bearings are more sensitive to heat than journal bearings? If you have a link to another technical paper on that, post the link, please. (I'm just a tech nerd, like reading these papers.)

Regardless, we've also seen several Garrett GT ball bearing turbocharger cooked to death as well. Most often the retainer is in pieces, just like in the photo at the bottom of page 4.
I've also seen hundreds of journal bearing turbochargers cooked to death on 911 Turbos, too: KKK, Garrett, Turbonetics, Holset, IHI, etc.

Porsche had a thermostatically triggered setup on the 951, but a passive system would be simpler without a pump or thermostat. Rotating the turbocharger's CHRA by 20deg makes that possible, but can require modifying the oil inlet (supply line) and outlet (oil drain canister).


Back to the original question: no, don't know of anyone with a finished kit/package you can purchase.
It would be quite easy to piece together, and not very expensive, either.
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Yes, you can build a passive cooling system.

Yes, it really only matters after shutoff, and preventing heat soak after shutoff will extend the turbocharger life.

John -
These do not heat soak any more or any less than a K-series turbocharger. It doesn't sound like you're sure why specifically your turbocharger failed, and unless you determine that, the cooling system may be in vain. Your rebuilt turbocharger may not last any longer.
The most common causes of turbocharger failure on a 930:
- FOD (foreign object damage). A chipped, dented, or broken blade is a clear indicator.
- excessive EGTs -- too lean, not enough ignition timing
- heat soak -- hot shut off
When I was done installing the turbo I was running a little lean. about 12.7-12.9 at 6000 rpms. I did not get a chance to adjust my WUR. Would that kill the turbo in 500 miles ? I did not see any damage to the wheels at all.

I really only do quick 10 sec runs and not that many at all.

I have a XDI ignition system so I can adjust my ignition timing there.
My motor is a 3.5 liter designed by Henry at Supertec. It is 8.1 comp, 964 cams and single plug. What do you recommend for timing settings.

The thing I do no is that my K27HF has had no issues for over 20,000 miles with the same set up and timing.
I did send it out about 1 yr ago while I was getting some motor work done just to be checked out and they said it was fine but I had new seals put in just to be safe but never had any smoke or trouble at all.....
Thanks John
Old 05-14-2014, 03:38 PM
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My parts list from memory.
Piece of about 4" dia aluminum tube with a plate welded on the bottom and rad cap on top.
Rad cap from a local speed shop & tube from Metal Supermarkets.
Teflon lined braided hose and flair fittings from an industrial supply house.
Pump is an Audi after run coolant circulation part & in line thermostat either from Summit or speed shop & I used a Bosch BMW relay for the power.
The actual radiator is a small stacked plate style oil cooler probably intended as a power steering cooler. I run Water Wetter in distilled water.
The rad is behind the fender support in the left rear of the car under the fender.

When I come in off the track and check temps of the reservoir I see around 200F. But expect the cool down lap takes maybe 10 or 20 off of the peak on track temps.
Dave
Old 05-15-2014, 05:09 AM
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The newer Ford supercharged vehicles have all the components you need that cool the W/A IC's. Should be good for a turbo too.

Just trying to devalue your guys inflated 930 pricing.
Old 05-15-2014, 06:33 AM
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I think one of the biggest barriers is room. How large and complex of a stand alone system is needed and where can I put it? How much radiator is enough with and without active circulation? How large of a pump is needed? How much fluid is needed and what size surge/overflow tank, again with or without active circulation? And then there is the question of whether augmenting radiator airflow with a fan is helpful for these purposes or not.
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Last edited by sjf911; 05-15-2014 at 09:06 AM..
Old 05-15-2014, 09:02 AM
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If you read the Garrett white papers, it's clear the pump is not necessary.
Probably would work fine with small radiator and lines to and from the turbo, maybe a catch/expansion tank in there somewhere. I have room for that stuff.
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Old 05-15-2014, 09:37 AM
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