You know the market is getting crazy...

[tonypeoni]

Originally Posted by Robbbyg Ferraris are not rarer than 930's Ferraris are not Faster than 930's Ferraris are not built as well as 930's Ferraris seem to catch on fire more than 930's Q: So why do they sell for more? A: Because the owners sell them for that price 'Obvious and logical answer to that question isnt it? So then you need to ask Why? The only reason i can think of is that Maybe the typical Ferrari owner revere their cars more than a typical 930 owner? Theres a handful of guys here myself included that would not even consider looking at an offer for our cars for under $100k (i wouldn't part with mine for less than double that) so therefore that is the value of OUR cars because we have set it, no one else can set the value on my car, well they can make offers and conjecture but thats our price tak it or leave it no problem the buyer is not obliged to meet the price. Ive said it before and ill say it again, The Sellers control the Market not the buyers, keep that in mind and prices will continue to rise beyond the puny 0-60mph in 8.5 second ferrari dinos! geez talk about slow So if you wonder why some pricing for 930's are low its because the sellers are selling them low, soon those sellers will be no more and there will only be left owners that compleely revere their cars, that is the day when the prices will go through the roof, supply-demand. Say in this universe a buyer has 200k and he wants a 930, what does he do? he looks for the cheapest car for his money, he finds 3 cars all identical one is 50k one is 100k one is 150k He buys the 50k one of course.. He has just set a price guide, so the other two sellers think theres no way we ae going to get our asking price so they drop their price to match the other But on Another alternate earth all three cars are over 150k, so the buyer again buys the cheaper one and also setting a price guide. Motto: If you want 930's to sell for more then stop selling them for less, and when they go for more just think to yourself that it isnt enough, not until they are in seven figures anyway. Ill add that i completely disagree that you can not buy a 930 for investment because you actually can if you do it the smart way. You are exactly right. In truth all I hope is that we see a steady increase in value. One thing I think the modders loose site of on this forum is the ever INCREASING cost to keep a 930 on the road. Resale value needs to justify this. We will see very big increases for maintenance, parts, ect in the coming years. And this has nothing to do with six figure 930s. Simply fewer parts and more so fewer techs qualified to service a 930.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by tonypeoni

One thing I think the modders loose site of on this forum is the ever INCREASING cost to keep a 930 on the road. Its resale value needs to justify this.

Sorry Tony, but you're talking out of your keister here (or you really are that completely clueless). Variables such as resale value justification do not matter one bit to the performance enthusiast. Your above statement is so ridiculous that I'm having a difficult time believing that you have ever had an interest in a Porsche or any other performance machine. In fact, I'm now doubting that you even own a car of any kind.

Originally Posted by tonypeoni

Simply due to fewer parts and more so fewer techs qualified to service a 930.

Fewer parts my ass - have you even bothered to look at the Porsche Classic Parts website? I ask, because Porsche has been steadily increasing production of parts for the air cooled cars. Have a lookie and get informed before spreading BS!

Genuine Parts Catalogue - Classic Genuine Parts & Technical Literature - Porsche Classic - Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG

And regarding qualified techs - in the modder crowd, who do you think works on their cars - THEY DO! These machines are VERY DIY friendly, and there are vast resources out there for specialized services that are beyond one's scope. Get real, bub!

[tonypeoni]

And regarding qualified techs - in the modder crowd, who do you think works on their cars - THEY DO!

This is not the norm. Most 930 owners do not repair their own car. Of course modders repair their own car. They dont take it to a mechanic. They loose site of what it would cost to repair the car because they do it themselves. This is fine but not reality for most. Most 930 owners have to pay someone to fix their car.

[oilonly]

I'm glad they are going up in price.

[aschen]

Id say most forum patrons try to do as much of their own work as possible. If you do a pole i think youll find over 50% shade tree mechs here. Anybody I know who has the patience to have any sort of old car, does their own work. Of course I probably just know poor people.


Im not sure how any of this is related to the crazy market, but I think the answer is to use this forum to help you learn to work on your old car, rather than petition for higher values.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by tonypeoni

This is not the norm. Most 930 owners do not repair their own car.

What are you basing this on - just some wild ass guess because you don't work on yours? Surely you are not basing it on what you read here, as the vast majority of owners that post on this forum do some, if not most/all of their own work.

Originally Posted by tonypeoni

They loose site of what it would cost to repair the car because they do it themselves.

Complete and utter nonsense! The DIY guy is far more informed than most as to the cost of repairs - they have looked, and continue to look, into this in detail, and commonly have friends that work in the trade. WOW, dude, really?!

[tonypeoni]

"Your above statement is so ridiculous that I'm having a difficult time believing that you have ever had an interest in a Porsche or any other performance machine."

You say this...

[TheRedSlantnose]

I had the same thing happen to me last year, shortly after I purchased my car. A guy in a VW Golf drove up and asked if my car was for sale. I told him I'd sell my car to him for $60,000...he backed out immediately, but I wasn't gonna sell it anyway

[TimT]

We had a '79 930 in the shop recently..

12.5K miles, and it still had the window sticker in place (kind of cool and strange)

The owner knows the prices are going through the roof with these cars, and would call every day to assure his car was safe.... in a safe spot in the shop, not outside when rain is forecast....

Guards red, unbelievable, clean unmolested 930..

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by tonypeoni

You say this...

Okay, so you've got many Porsche books and videos, but when are you going to read, watch and understand them? Once you do, MAYBE you will be able to make more informed and accurate comments on the subject!

[Ronnie's.930]

Noah, sorry for stinking up your thread, but I find that I can't just sit back and let Tony's inaccurate nonsense go unchecked . . .

[Noah930]

Rock on, Ronnie.

I think fear of maintenance costs have kept 930 values low for a long time. Heck, there's no freakin' way an M491 is "worth" as much as a real 930 (obviously written from my bias as a 930 owner), but that's not what the market (which is always right ) says.

Originally Posted by aschen

Of course I probably just know poor people.

LOL.

I probably do over half my maintenance myself, but take it to a shop when I get to tasks I just don't have the tools or skills to accomplish. I don't have a welder,or a drill press, or an alignment rack, etc. But I think if I'm going to be driving a 27 year-old car in isolated places with no/spotty cellphone coverage (you know, like in canyons and backroads), it behooves me to know how these cars run so that I can get myself home if something mechanical goes wrong.

It's nice to have enough market value in the car so that I don't feel like a fool for spending money on maintaining or repairing it. But it's also nice not to have something so expensive that you're afraid to drive it, or can't afford to buy another, or have the market flooded by flippers or other people who buy these things for collections instead of for the open road.

[zagato24]

I feel the market for the 930’s is where it needs to be now and it should go higher for many obvious reasons. The car is a super car and always has been. The rule of thumb in the classic car market is that if the car was very expensive, rare, and exotic when it was launched then it will appreciate in value in due course. Look at the value of other expensive exotics, the early Jaguar E-type or the Aston Martin DB5 and now the DB6. The down side to this of course is folks like us love these cars want to enjoy them. With the value increases, it makes us reluctant to enjoy the cars. I currently drive a 1988 Carrera daily soon moving to a 1987 930 as a daily driver. We can’t take these cars with us so we might as well enjoy them.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Noah930

Rock on, Ronnie.

Sweet, and WILL DO!

What got my nudds swangin' here is the sheer rubbish (aka: flat out falsehoods) of Tony's comments. I can appreciate differences in preference and opinion (for example; I respect the fact that Paul enjoys an errrrr, ummmmm, "alternative", male heavy, lifestyle ), but the difference between Paul and Tony is Paul does not seek to sway others to his preferences (well, he tried it with me, but gave up when I turned him down cold) or pass judgments on those that don't share his values, and Tony conveys that since he only values OEM Turbos, then everyone else is foolish to not do the same.

Regardless, while differing opinions/preferences are a fine and welcome thing, blatant inaccuracies definitely deserve a kick to the junk (the force of the kick dependent on the offender's track record on such matters, of course)!

Anyway, I'm glad you are a sport about it!

[jwasbury]

Originally Posted by tonypeoni

One thing I think the modders loose site of on this forum is the ever INCREASING cost to keep a 930 on the road.

Surely you can't be serious.

Nice library, but I don't see a factory workshop manual, Bruce Anderson's 911 performance handbook, or Wayne Dempsey's how to rebuild or modify your Porsche 911 engine book. If you don't have them, I recommend you add them to the collection.

This forum is primarily a DIY crowd...and not everyone here has built themselves a 934 replica. Most of us have been faced with replacing worn out old factory parts, and aftermarket parts offer better or equal performance for a better price, or original new parts are simply unavailable at any price.

My first "mod" was a TIAL wastegate. The original wastegate was toast. Valve guide and seat were shot. A new one from Porsche (if you could find it) would be over $1000...for a ******* wastegate!!!!! Tial is a great alternative, reasonable priced, fits perfectly, BRAND new, with replacement parts (like seats) available should you need them. Make a phone call and its on your doorstep in a day or two.

I built my engine from the crank out with my bare hands in my garage (so did a lot of others here). Those of us who have done this know in much more detail than any checkbook mechanic what it costs to care for and feed an air-cooled turbo Porsche. This is why when I look at the price of OE Mahle half-finned cylinders and pistons for a stock rebuilt ($4k), its a no brainer for me to choose LN Engineering Nickies cylinders and JE pistons (made in the USA) which offer real advantages over the OE parts, plus for the same money you can increase displacement.

Other modders with "poor sight" have been faced with deterioratating CIS fuel injection systems. Injectors at $100+ a pop, plus costs for WURs and fuel head rebuilds adds up. Once you're looking at a full replacement of that system, EFI looks like a pretty good option. Properly tuned it will outperform CIS in every way AND you can readily source parts if something takes a dump, and tune it from the passenger seat with your laptop while your wife is driving the car to the grocery store. If my CIS fuel head craps out, I'll take EFI in a heatbeat. Make mine with ITBs too please.

I don't think that anyone of us is "upset" that values are going up. The "upset" comes from the culture clash that we see occurring as collectors come in and the bone-stock weenie-ness that ensues. This weenie-ness is recently evidenced by Bill Rudtner's inquiry looking for the capacitor for the ignition delay function which a customer wants to be working (must be the 12k garage queen referenced by TimT in a post earlier on this thread). Some real enthusiasts will be priced out (which is too bad), and enthusiasts who own these cars to drive and enjoy them have to endure the onslaught of "you're devaluing the car" by driving it or modifying it.

I was talking to a buddy recently about this phenomenon. He's not a car guy, but he collects bass guitars (has about 100 instruments, collection valued well over 100k). Same thing happens there. If you routed the body of your vintage Fender Jazz to install some funky ass pickup, you're not getting the big money. But then the serious weenies will frown upon even the original electronics being resoldered.

[Ken911]

Well said

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

Surely you can't be serious.

Nice library, but I don't see a factory workshop manual, Bruce Anderson's 911 performance handbook, or Wayne Dempsey's how to rebuild or modify your Porsche 911 engine book. If you don't have them, I recommend you add them to the collection.

This forum is primarily a DIY crowd...and not everyone here has built themselves a 934 replica. Most of us have been faced with replacing worn out old factory parts, and aftermarket parts offer better or equal performance for a better price, or original new parts are simply unavailable at any price.

My first "mod" was a TIAL wastegate. The original wastegate was toast. Valve guide and seat were shot. A new one from Porsche (if you could find it) would be over $1000...for a ******* wastegate!!!!! Tial is a great alternative, reasonable priced, fits perfectly, BRAND new, with replacement parts (like seats) available should you need them. Make a phone call and its on your doorstep in a day or two.

I built my engine from the crank out with my bare hands in my garage (so did a lot of others here). Those of us who have done this know in much more detail than any checkbook mechanic what it costs to care for and feed an air-cooled turbo Porsche. This is why when I look at the price of OE Mahle half-finned cylinders and pistons for a stock rebuilt ($4k), its a no brainer for me to choose LN Engineering Nickies cylinders and JE pistons (made in the USA) which offer real advantages over the OE parts, plus for the same money you can increase displacement.

Other modders with "poor sight" have been faced with deterioratating CIS fuel injection systems. Injectors at $100+ a pop, plus costs for WURs and fuel head rebuilds adds up. Once you're looking at a full replacement of that system, EFI looks like a pretty good option. Properly tuned it will outperform CIS in every way AND you can readily source parts if something takes a dump, and tune it from the passenger seat with your laptop while your wife is driving the car to the grocery store. If my CIS fuel head craps out, I'll take EFI in a heatbeat. Make mine with ITBs too please.

I don't think that anyone of us is "upset" that values are going up. The "upset" comes from the culture clash that we see occurring as collectors come in and the bone-stock weenie-ness that ensues. This weenie-ness is recently evidenced by Bill Rudtner's inquiry looking for the capacitor for the ignition delay function which a customer wants to be working (must be the 12k garage queen referenced by TimT in a post earlier on this thread). Some real enthusiasts will be priced out (which is too bad), and enthusiasts who own these cars to drive and enjoy them have to endure the onslaught of "you're devaluing the car" by driving it or modifying it.

I was talking to a buddy recently about this phenomenon. He's not a car guy, but he collects bass guitars (has about 100 instruments, collection valued well over 100k). Same thing happens there. If you routed the body of your vintage Fender Jazz to install some funky ass pickup, you're not getting the big money. But then the serious weenies will frown upon even the original electronics being resoldered.

Yes yes and furthermore yes.

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by aschen

If you do a pole...

No thanks, but you go right ahead

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by nkowi

No thanks, but you go right ahead

Ha! Good man!!!

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by nkowi

No thanks, but you go right ahead

Ok, Ok!