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Paul's ebrakes

Submitting this under the "no such thing as a stupid question" ideal:
How does one fasten the "spring loaded loaded j-hook" which retains each ebrake shoe to the backing plate? This is #31 in the appropriate diagram (Turbo rear brakes). On an SC, the user-friendly pin and conical slotted washer is utilized (same as most other ATE equipped cars, incl. my Alfa). But the Turbo has this nasty little coil spring with j-hook end (one,per ebrake shoe), the "j" of which needs to engage in a secondary, smaller hole in the backing plate in order to lock. Familiar to anyone? How to install without buggering them up? Thanks, John
Old 07-06-2014, 06:28 PM
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...not only ^that^

but

when we mount up the adjuster wheel on the right side, the shorter of the 2 springs which affix the 2 shoes together then resides tightly between teeth of said adjuster - that cannot be right, but... neither of us see an apparent alternative

any insight here would be great folks - freakin annoying to come this far and have to call it a(nother!) night w/o progress

frustrating to be made to feel so dumb over something so trivial - grrrr...

filled the b!tch w/ oil at least!
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
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| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 07-06-2014, 07:45 PM
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Assuming you mean numbers 22-24 on the attached diagram (older brakes but the e-brake assembly should be the same).



I never had any grief with this. The pin has always been fairly secure on the backing plate (it moves around a bit, but never came detached from the plate). Then I always use my two fingers to compress the spring with the washer, guide it through the hole and and twist to lock it down. The only trouble I ever had was getting the latex glove finger pinched tearing a small hole in the glove...

Bottom line, it shouldn't be giving you that much trouble. Try a different orientation of the pin so that it stays in place on the backing plate, then you can maneuver and lock the washer on top...

I have mine apart now, bummer cause I could take a look, but I'm nowhere near my car... Post some pics, gotta be something simple...
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Old 07-06-2014, 08:53 PM
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Hmmm

Someone once told me rather a stupid questions than stupid mistakes.

My spring got jacked up (broke) last summer, and as far as I remember I simply used a pair of pliers and persuaded them back in place

Please post a photo, this might refresh my memory, as you know my car is not readily Available...
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Carrera 3.0 1975
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Old 07-06-2014, 08:53 PM
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Pat - exactly... yer recollection of them not giving you issue is b/c you just described the easier ones that John was talking about above.

Jesper, thanks - here's a pic:



behind the shoe on the hub face is a larger circular hole that the "J" pushes through, then you are "supposed" to get the tip of the hook to catch this secondary tiny hole right next to that hole and let go

um, yeah

I've never read any posts (or found any from searching) about this giving anyone a problem so that's why it's even more frustrating. Hoping someone's got the secrethandshake / brastrap snap technique here...
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
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| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 07-07-2014, 04:21 AM
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Ahhh, sorry, I get it now... I don't remember having to do what you're asking.... Mine may be different. My hub is out, but the brake assembly is in tact (IIRC). If no one responds today I'll swing by the shop and take a few pics on my way home from work, see if that'll shed some light.

BTW, you sure the spring is not upside down? Isn't one side longer than the other?
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'75 914 GT clone project
'74 914 track basket-case
Old 07-07-2014, 06:23 AM
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Thanks Pat - that'd be helpful if you have the time and wouldn't mind, tho yours being an older car might have the earlier setup

just see if you can verify if the J-hook is settled in the secondary hole (can see from behind) or not

also

a pic of the adjuster would be helpful, as mine has the spring residing within the adjuster's teeth - yours being older shouldn't matter there

spring can only go one way so def not updside down (the shoe locating spring - the others go either way)
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 07-07-2014, 06:35 AM
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I think that is what mine looks like as well.

The J-hook snapped on my RH brake. Since I drive the car daily, I needed an immediate fix though I ordered a new part as well. I actually shortened the original hook by straightening part of the coil and shape it into a J, and was able to hook that back up.
While it was tedious, I don't think I used other than pliers, screw drivers, and bruised fingers.

I would say, you are correct on how you think the J is hooked up. Through the bigger hole and then fixed in the smaller.

Edit: the ones Pat are describing are similar to my Carrera 3.0 ones, which makes sense as his sig says 1976 930. Those are easier to work with.

I am sorry I cannot provide help as such.
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Carrera 3.0 1975
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Last edited by jsveb; 07-07-2014 at 08:14 AM..
Old 07-07-2014, 08:12 AM
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thanks Jesper

we can get it hooked behind the big opening, just not into the small circle - will keep trying I guess, wanted to confirm that was the actual result tho

any insight about the smaller spring impeding the adjuster teeth?
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 07-07-2014, 08:14 AM
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Sorry Paul, I can't remember the spring and adjuster. It's been a year since it did this.

Once again, a picture might help.
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Carrera 3.0 1975
930 1978 OEM Matte Schwartz, ANDIAL IC, BL WUR, SC cams. LMA-3 w. XD-16 and CP transducer
www.stauningwhisky.dk
Old 07-07-2014, 08:28 AM
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Paul I just did mine , push through big hole (I'm sure you are good at that) and twist hook into small . If it is to hard to hold use small pair of pliers to hold outside of spring when pushing at top . I didn't think it was that hard , I know it was hard to see standing on my head to see upper one
I could very easy to take mine off and post pic if needed
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:30 AM
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What you have described is exactly how they go in. I was able to move the spring around on the backside to get it into the secondary hole. If you don't the spring will make a god-awful noise once it falls into the drum.
The spring on the adjuster thru me for a while also, but that is where it goes. I was still able to adjust the P brake even with the spring there. I wonder if the intent was to keep the adjuster from unintentional movements.
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:33 AM
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OK I will run out and take some pixs .. the adjuster spring issue is kind of a detent to keep adjuster from rotating

Kozmo
Old 07-07-2014, 08:35 AM
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wow - thanks guys

I'd feel more stupiderer... if not for that... John was also somewhat befuddled by both these issues and he's notably more talented / skilled than I! Tho, that's probably more an insult to John than a compliment to me 8-)

We tried getting those buggers in w/ needle nose, needle nose vice grips, bull nose pliers, etc. to no avail. Def was being a massive hoar, for both of us.

Guess we'll keep trying.

Weird on the spring in the adjuster tooth - I looked at it and figured no way. Odd.
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| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |

Last edited by krasuskyp; 07-07-2014 at 09:41 AM..
Old 07-07-2014, 08:40 AM
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your lucky I haven't bleed my brakes yet easy to take apart...
I have it apart so you can see so if you need better pix let me know ... and just to confirm it was a "biotchhh" but one hand can push and turn , leaves quite the impression on your thumb

Kozmo
Old 07-07-2014, 09:07 AM
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This is pretty low on the difficulty scale once you figure it out. Kozmo has the right idea. Basically you push on the spring to compress it. Peek around the other side of the backing plate and rotate the coil until the end of the j-bend lines up with the little hole.

The first time I messed with the e brake was a curse fest. By the 3rd or 4th time, it's easy.
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:21 AM
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see, the "low on difficulty scale" bit is what scalds me (us)

the whole mechanism just flip flops around loosely and then the spring doesn't want to grab that tiny little hole at all - we both tried it with thumbs, assorted pliers, large Phillips (that actually worked pretty well in allowing to push and twist) - fukker just didn't want to bite the hole

Thanks tho Kozminator fer ze pic - least it confirms the spring in the adj tooth is 'right' (still seems dumb to me)

I've already bled the b!tch heh heh... so yeah... I'm 'ahead' of you! 8-)
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 07-07-2014, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krasuskyp View Post
see, the "low on difficulty scale" bit is what scalds me (us)

the whole mechanism just flip flops around loosely and then the spring doesn't want to grab that tiny little hole at all - we both tried it with thumbs, assorted pliers, large Phillips (that actually worked pretty well in allowing to push and twist) - fukker just didn't want to bite the hole

Thanks tho Kozminator fer ze pic - least it confirms the spring in the adj tooth is 'right' (still seems dumb to me)

I've already bled the b!tch heh heh... so yeah... I'm 'ahead' of you! 8-)
LOL... I just took mine apart for you to take pix ... I have new orange 4's I need to break in , but soon cool blue fluid will be in before the day is out !

Kozmo
Old 07-07-2014, 09:51 AM
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I said THANKS! 8-)

very cool of you

yes, all bled w/ Super Blue - soooo pissed that stuff is all gone now. Lame.

I'm @ lunch so I was able to go out armed with the knowledge I was barking up the right tree and was able to get the springs into the small holes. Must have been a bad night last night - for both of us 8-).

But again, confirming that spring in the tooth bit is right is quiet helpful regardless.

On to MSD pinout!
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 07-07-2014, 09:57 AM
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Awesome.

Thanks for making me feel at home
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Jesper
Carrera 3.0 1975
930 1978 OEM Matte Schwartz, ANDIAL IC, BL WUR, SC cams. LMA-3 w. XD-16 and CP transducer
www.stauningwhisky.dk
Old 07-07-2014, 10:10 AM
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