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Looking at a 930... PPI results

I just got the PPI back for the 1986 930 that I am looking to buy.

It has 65000 miles on it.

17 items came back. All seem minor to me except for possibly this one:

"Found that there is a slight accumulation of engine oil near the cylinder head and case which is common with this engine type. Found slight accumulation of oil near the cylinder head mating area which is also common with this engine type. This repair requires complete engine reseal, although there are no major leaks at this time."

The technician went on to say that even after the engine reseal there could still be a slight accumulation of engine oil in the mentioned areas.

What do you guys/gals think?

Thanks
James
Old 07-11-2014, 04:48 PM
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That's not bad but what about leak down and compression test? Those would determine (for the most part) the condition of the engine. To me that's much more important than a slight oil seepage in typical areas you mentioned.
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Old 07-11-2014, 04:56 PM
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I have been told that it is very intrusive to do a compression test and leak down test on these vehicles. And that the owner's are not that giggly about letting you do one.

Therefore, I didn't ask for one.

James
Old 07-11-2014, 05:52 PM
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Agree with MikeD, just saw the response... A PPI is worthless without those...
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Old 07-11-2014, 05:52 PM
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If the seller isn't willing to let you do either of those it's time to walk away.
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Old 07-11-2014, 05:57 PM
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Get a leak down test done!!!

It is that simple
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Old 07-11-2014, 06:36 PM
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A leak down and compression test should take an hour at most. Its extremely easy to do on a 930 and is not intrusive at all. If someone is opposing the idea then there is something to hide.
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Old 07-11-2014, 06:58 PM
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One should never buy a 930 that does not have a fresh engine without a leak down test. A competent mechanic will do no harm.
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Old 07-11-2014, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nextjato View Post
...very intrusive...
Its actually the least intrusive...

Compression and leak down and have the plugs replace at the same time if the result are good.
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Old 07-11-2014, 07:03 PM
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In the seller's description of the car he states that he put in new spark plugs. Would any of you put in new spark plugs without doing a compression and leak down test?

My limited knowledge of these cars is that if you are going to go to the trouble of getting to the spark plugs, you are 95% of the way to completing a compression test. Right or wrong?

My thoughts are that the seller may have already done the compression/leak down test.

Thanks for your help guys, I appreciate the education.

James
Old 07-11-2014, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkracer21j View Post
A leak down and compression test should take an hour at most. Its extremely easy to do on a 930 and is not intrusive at all. If someone is opposing the idea then there is something to hide.
^^^
There's your answer.
And no, a compression test is not something one does just b/c they are putting in new spark plugs. And even if seller states he did, and told you the results, you would be nuts to believe the data.
Bad leakdown can cost 10-20k to fix. You can't gamble with that kind of dough.
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nextjato View Post
In the seller's description of the car he states that he put in new spark plugs. Would any of you put in new spark plugs without doing a compression and leak down test?

My limited knowledge of these cars is that if you are going to go to the trouble of getting to the spark plugs, you are 95% of the way to completing a compression test. Right or wrong?

My thoughts are that the seller may have already done the compression/leak down test.

Thanks for your help guys, I appreciate the education.

James
I wouldn't do a compression/leakdown test during any maintenance routine like changing plugs unless I suspected something was wrong with the motor. It's easy enough to do once you get everything out of the way to do plugs - but it's not like I would just do it for no particular reason.

Granted - it's certainly a pain to remove all the crap to get good access to the plugs if the car is stock, but like others mentioned - it is a good indication of the engine's health and I would certainly offer to pay to have it done. If not, you need to be okay with the unknown.

Like others mentioned - if the seller is reluctant to have the service done, I would be cautious. I wouldn't run.... I would rather decide if you really want that car or not. If you do, then I would work on a price and make the compression/leakdown a condition prior to purchasing the car. Offer to pay for it (I certainly wouldn't do a compression/leakdown for free unless the buyer is going to pay me for my time). Judge the results for yourself.

Best of luck.

Chris.
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Old 07-11-2014, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hams930T View Post
... I would rather decide if you really want that car or not. If you do, then I would work on a price and make the compression/leakdown a condition prior to purchasing the car...
+1

Here is an a couple of condition listed on my offer when I bought my car:

* A Pre Purchase Inspection to be performed by XXX of City does not require repairs above a $500 threshold with the exception of tire replacements and brakes maintenance. The buyer will assume cost of the P.P.I.;

* The car pass the Safety Test at the seller expenses; and and

* The engine passes a Compression Test/Leak Down to be performed after the P.P.I. The buyer will assume cost of the Tests.

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Last edited by JJ 911SC; 07-12-2014 at 04:14 AM..
Old 07-12-2014, 04:12 AM
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After reflecting on the valuable advice I have received on this board I have gone back and re-read what the seller has posted in his advertisement. The seller is a licensed dealer with a good reputation who boosts of his thorough inspection of the car, and he goes on to list all of the maintenance done during the inspection. It doesn't make sense to me that the seller would do all this and NOT do a compression/leak down test. I see red flags.

I have emailed the dealership asking for the compression/leak down test results, and for another test to be done by a third party. Maybe I should be, but I am not worried about this seller putting in writing fraudulent test results. If he did he could loose his license. But, just in case I am going to take this web board's advice and have another test done.

Thanks

James
Old 07-12-2014, 04:53 AM
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The discussion on compression/leak down testing kind of overshadowed the original question:

Does anyone see any problems with "slight" oil accumulating around the cylinder head, case and mating area on a 65,000 mile car?

James
Old 07-12-2014, 05:12 AM
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James-

Here's a pic of what the seller is referring to, from my 60k mi '87 running 0.9bar and when on stock turbo (i.e. it's normal-ish):



good luck w/ the potential purchase, and def get those 3rd party tests...
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Old 07-12-2014, 07:07 AM
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The oil accumulation is normal, remember most of these cars don't get enjoyed enough and sitting causes leaks. If we let any of the cars here at D-Zug sit for a month they start to weep and leave their mark on the floor. If they're driven every couple of weeks, then everything stays dry as a bone.
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Old 07-12-2014, 07:57 AM
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Mine was also doing that when it had dilivar head studs in it and I was running 1.1 bar of boost.
It's not normal and it's caused by the heads lifting when running more than stock .7 to .8 bar of boost with stock dilivar head studs torqued to SC or Carrera head torque specs of around 24-26 foot pounds. I've been told they should be torqued to 32-36 foot pounds in a turbo running 1 to 1.2 bar of boost as long as there's no corrosion on them.
Of course you need to do something to the CIS to have enough fuel to run that much boost or go EFI.

Since putting in ARP head studs torqued to 38 foot pounds with new 3.3 Mahle pistons and cylinders and rebuilt heads they don't leak there at all and stay perfectly dry.

FWIW, while the rods were out of the motor I had them resized and new wristpin bushings installed and machined for the new wristpins that came with the piston and cylinder set and used new rod bearings.
Then I balanced the rods down to 1/10 of a gram best I could on a triple beam scale in my kitchen.
Old 07-12-2014, 08:32 AM
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Here is a photo of the oil accumulation from the PPI in question.
Old 07-12-2014, 12:22 PM
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Mine would get like that before I redid the top end. It used to drip down and cook on to the heat exchangers and smoke and stink. I hated seeing it and I used to spray gunk on it and then pressure clean it off every few months.

Now with ARP headstuds and rebuilt top end it doesn't do that anymore.
I installed a new rebuilt alternator the other day and took a pic of the top of that area while the alternator was out. It was nice to see it all staying clean in there. Too bad you can't see the nice shiny ARP head studs when everything is back together.





And a few pics of the cylinder to case and cylinder to head area staying clean on the bottom.





Old 07-12-2014, 01:08 PM
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