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Subscribed!!
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1976 911s,2.7, Cobalt blue, G 40 cams, Weber 40 IDA, SSI / Dansk, MSD 6AL
1991 964 Turbo,3.3 ,Polar silver, Fabspeed headers and exhaust, stock W/G, Greddy EBC, Synapse BOV, BL WUR w/ RPM CSV switch, CIS Fuelhead mods, GT 35 Turbo, Snow W/Meth Inj., K&N Cone Air Filter, AAR delete, Decel valve delete, Zeitronics ZR-2 AFR
1994 968 White, bone stock! (son's first car)
Old 11-28-2014, 09:05 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #221 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 486
received via email this morning

apparently DIYAutotune.com are having a sale this weekend
Sale runs November 27th - December 1st.
Place your order and checkout using Promo Code DIYBF14 for 10% off the entire order.
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 11-28-2014, 06:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #222 (permalink)
Rocket Scientist
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Detroit
Posts: 895
Have you seen this? It is a later version of KE-Jetronic that incorporated a wider range differential pressure control, engine boost, eng temp, throttle condition, and airflow rate inputs. No WUR? I think this was an early '80's technology. I wonder it there is a six cylinder version. This setup would be quite a conversation piece on a 930.

Old 11-28-2014, 06:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #223 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 486
Yes, thanks,

KE Jet is actually our commercial project target.

FrankenCIS is capable of controlling all three versions of CIS including KE
(MicroSquirt needs an adapter to convert the injector control to a DPR / EHA friendly signal)


KE jet from a late model Mercedes V8 is about to undergo testing here as we believe it to be the best option for fully mappable control, but it does require changing a fair portion of the fuel system.
The V8 fuel head with two ports blocked should suit the Porsche 6 - Bosch part number 0-438-101-018
The matching Regulator is also required

There are a number of 6 cylinder heads which may also suit
0 438 101 012 (Mercedes)
0 438 101 029 (Audi)
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com

Last edited by Reanimotion; 02-10-2015 at 05:04 PM..
Old 11-28-2014, 06:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #224 (permalink)
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kenikh's Avatar
 
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Assuming MS3Pro isn't in the support plans, given Franken8 is the plan of record?
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 11-28-2014, 06:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #225 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Franken8 is our long term solution but it will be quite a while before it can prove it matches or improves on the MS3 for features.

MS3/MS3-pro will need a little work on our part to confirm compatibility and then implement as the fuel control code is very different to the MS2. It should be possible but if you are looking to take advantage of the sale on this weekend I strongly suggest waiting! We did purchase a MS3 processor board for development purposes so should be able to give it a go over the Christmas break. I'd also like to recheck with the MS3 team that we wouldn't be stepping on toes by going down that path.

If it can be made to run the FrankenCIS variations - given the existing feature list and maturity - MS3-pro is probably the best short to medium term option if you require something more advanced than the MicroSquirt.
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 11-28-2014, 07:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #226 (permalink)
 
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Just to clarify for those watching from the sidelines...

The MicroSquirt is currently the only supported option that can run FrankenCIS.

Although we are all discussing a variety of alternatives, and happy to continue doing so! These are at present only imagined possibilities or in the very, very early stages of development.

Secondly, while I have the chance. Thanks to all of you for your interest and support so far. You have all helped this insane little project be a bucket load of fun !
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 11-29-2014, 01:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #227 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
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For those interested in Electromotive compatibility and testing, I'm taking this on. I picked up a #2 block, based on Steve's recommendation, then will reach out to the Electromotive technical team to see if/how they can help. I've had good luck with then in the past...we needed some customized code in the firmware for knock control a few years back and they were very helpful and responsive.

Here's my plan:

1. My motor is just being completed and should be ready to run in the next 30 days.
2. The motor will be tuned using a Leask adjustable WUR as a baseline, with the Tec3R running spark/knock/boost control.
3. Once running, we'll start on the FrankenCIS block.
4. In the interim, I'll check all of the available outputs on the Tec3r for spec compatibility
5. I'll talk to Uwe at electromotive and see what needs to be done to get the FrankenCIS operational.

I'll keep you all posted.
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 11-30-2014, 06:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #228 (permalink)
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Kenikh, sounds interesting.

How did you purchase the block? I could not find a "buy it" link.

Thanks
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Carrera 3.0 1975
930 1978 OEM Matte Schwartz, ANDIAL IC, BL WUR, SC cams. LMA-3 w. XD-16 and CP transducer
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Old 11-30-2014, 07:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #229 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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eBay at present until we get organised

reanimotion | eBay
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 11-30-2014, 12:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #230 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Steve - can you report back how the 928 is running with the FrankenCIS installed? I'm sure you are still in shakedown mode, but once you've dialed things in, some measurables from A/B testing MPG/Dyno numbers would be valuable. Even impressions from the "butt dyno" would be great.

Keep up the good work!
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 12-04-2014, 11:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #231 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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The development steps taken with the 928 Mule meant I bypassed accurate and reportable baseline numbers for power and economy

The main step taken was to ensure the tune matched factory specs with either the WUR or FrankenCIS in place. I can say MPG has improved in city driving slightly with both systems because of the verified tuning baseline.

For this normally aspirated application the biggest area for possible improvement is mid to low throttle cruise.

Economy on the old beast has always been roughly measured in distance per tank.
Previous figures were generally under 300km between fills around town and around 350km highway
The last highway run returned an economy improvement of approximately 20% with over 400km before the fill light arrived, and I believe there is more room to move here for better results with appropriate timing.
Butt-Dyno reported slightly better throttle response and I would say smoother and more predictable transitions around part throttle.
Overall power is as good as it should be with maybe a slight improvement with digital over WUR at full throttle.

I'll fish out the Mercedes Dyno reports from earlier and post shortly.
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 12-04-2014, 05:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #232 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Economy is the big one, closely followed by partial throttle smoothness and throttle response, as far as the 930 goes. These are great findings, even if only anecdotal for the time being.

Awesome.
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 12-04-2014, 06:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #233 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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If purchasing the Pressure damper from Toyota or elsewhere, please be aware there is a special aluminium crush washer seal needed which apparently is not supplied with the unit from Toyota - it may be an issue with other suppliers also.

So, please make sure you get at least one (RRP about 2 bucks)

Gasket for pressure damper Toyota 23232-41081
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 12-04-2014, 08:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #234 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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One thing not explicit in the first post is what the preferred method is for measuring engine temp on a non-water cooled car a like a 930. Oil temp sensor? Cylinder head temp sensor?
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 12-04-2014, 08:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #235 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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The omission is a deliberate move as I have limited exposure to air-cooled motors.

My semi-educated guess would be Oil Temp as the overall core temperature should hold for longer between starts which is what currently drives and blocks the warm up curve activation in the Bosch Wur.
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 12-04-2014, 09:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #236 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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OK, I know the guy to ask.

Edit: The answer is either use an oil temp sensor, cylinder head temp sensor our both.
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930

Last edited by kenikh; 12-05-2014 at 07:24 AM..
Old 12-05-2014, 05:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #237 (permalink)
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Great work guys, I have been trying to follow , but some things are over my head, but i have some questions, I own a heavily modified Porsche 930 with CIS with over 400HP ,

1- will this unit replace the 930's WUR system
2- How will it work for cold, warm and hot starts ?
3- will their be a vacuum port for boost enrichment
4- will your unit be adjustable in anyway
5- will the system work with modified FD for more fuel flow?

I appreciate all your hard work to keep our old cars on the road, cheers

Helio
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Old 12-05-2014, 06:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #238 (permalink)
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Hmmm

1- Yes
2- It will work well
3- Yes
4- Depends on the Engine Control Unit, but should be completely adjustable
5- Yes

The unit is design to be somewhere between a stock system and an electronic fuel injection system. The WUR or control pressure regulator determines (loosely) how much fuel is delivered by the injectors. This is a replacement for the WUR that allows you to use an ECU to adjust the control pressure. So you get some of the benefits of electronic fuel injection by feeding various engine conditions (engine temperature, Throttle position and O2 to name a few possibilities). Right now it is not turn-key. It takes a bit of work to make it work, so I'd wait until there is something more turn-key unless you are comfortable tinkering.
Old 12-05-2014, 01:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #239 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 486
Very well said, Thank you!

FrankenCIS as a concept is still evolving as we explore both the possibilities and the form that end users would find the most useful.

In it's current state, it replaces the WUR, and uses the MicroSquirt to control fuel mixture based on as many or as few inputs from sensors as the installer feels necessary. The use of off the shelf parts allowed us to develop the system on a very low budget, and if it all went horribly wrong, most of the bits could be sold on eBay to normal people. This gave us a cheap and readily available starting point for DIY installations.

If I recall correctly there were something like 43 million vehicles fitted with a version of the K-Jet system, and a good portion of those are still on the road or even better, being restored.
As the FrankenCIS proves itself over time and becomes more popular, our primary goal is to foster the growth of an aftermarket community around the concept.
Suppliers like Electromotive might see value in adjusting their products to work with the system, and others will maybe join in by supplying kits or tuning components like air shrouded injector retrofits or the mythical cone air plate.
The first two batches of units are now out there in the world, and I'm told installations will be done over the Xmas/Winter breaks so we should start receiving user feedback soon.

We have a number of things on the drawing board at the moment, including options for a plug and play type kit as well as our specialised ECU for KE-jet.
Also under discussion are designs for more advanced versions of the WUR which don't require external sensors and dampers.
These are all a long way off and are honestly not intended to replace this version of the system as I believe there should always be an inexpensive DIY platform for those that want to tinker.

We still have a few ideas up our sleeves to improve the MicroSquirt version.
#1. Proper closed loop mixture control at part throttle and cruise using the Wideband O2 sensor and the AFR tables giving us long and short term fuel trim.
#2. Check Engine type warning light and maybe a limp mode or shutdown if AFR goes out of range or something else looks wrong.
These will be simple upgrades to the software meaning everyone will have access to new features as they become available.
The source code for the MicroSquirt is available on the FrankenCIS web site for anyone who needs or wishes to modify the control side for specific applications.

Also don't forget the current system can control the Frequency Valve on the later Lambda systems with the second injector output and spark too if you have an MSD or similar spark box. We might soon have a simple add-on interface for those that want to keep the 6 and 8 pin Bosch CDI.
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 12-05-2014, 05:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #240 (permalink)
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