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umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 507
That seems a bit high, our scratch pad worst case pricing and allowing some padding for connectors etc.
FrankenCIS type II block, injector, sensor and damper, MicroSquirt with MAP air and temp sensors under 1000 and with some careful shopping around for aftermarket alternative should be under 900. Swap the bespoke parts for the DIY component options listed at the beginning of this thread and you could possibly knock off another 200 or more.
the LC2 is US189 and I'm told the 14point7 Spartan2 is a better alternative at US125
shipping and taxes might mess with that though, especially if you are outside the US, and I could have missed something in our calcs.

Cost v Benefit is definitely a factor and in most cases this system just won't add up on the positive side for most people. Brian's WUR solution is proven and much less work to implement. Although FrankenCIS is a WUR replacement option, it's really an integrated system with a standalone engine controller that provides much more for the price - Mapped fuel - Boost control - Ignition - Closed loop AFR Targeting - Frequency Valve control - E85 handling - CAN based data logging etc. etc. and if it all goes horribly wrong most of the bits can be sold on eBay
A few brave souls are soon to begin installs and testing so actual 930 data should be popping up as the system proves itself in the real world, but at the moment this is a mad science experiment that is double the effort for the extra 10% result.
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 01-29-2015, 09:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #261 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted79 View Post
FrankenCIS WUR 100
MS 339
Injector 25
CP sensor (US made) 75
MAP sensor (GM) 40
IAT (Bosch) 21
Bosch 996 engine temp 35

Total $635US

Does that sound right?
Pretty close I think..
add a little to cater for connectors and such, also custom plumbing if you are factoring in the Type 1 metering block as there will need to be a mounting point for the CP sensor somewhere.
also use something other than the 996 temp sensor as the connector is not cheap and only available from Porsche
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 01-29-2015, 09:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #262 (permalink)
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I redid my numbers and edited my original costs. Now I think I'm low on the MS costs but like you say I think $800 or so is very close. Yes, I agree this gives many more options and I think it's def. worth it vs. just the BL WUR when you factor in ignition control with the MS. It will be interesting to see the data from actual tests. Thanks.
Old 01-29-2015, 09:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #263 (permalink)
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Welcome to the forum, you must be new, though you sound awfully lot like an old fart I talked to once, a long time ago. 😄
Good to hear you are still kicking.
I think this endeavor looks promising and I find the analog/digital control fascinating.

Quote:
Glad to hear that some version of the dam thing is working for someone.



I still have a stepper motor version I paid about $700 for that never

worked. It was never installed on the car because the dam things were failing

faster than anyone could keep up with replacements.



Finally there was zero support and E Mails and phone calls were like pissing

into the wind, all you were going to get was wet. I gave up and they suck !!!!!



Cole
Old 01-29-2015, 10:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #264 (permalink)
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^THIS^!!!

COLE! I've been meaning to rattle yer cage this week, been too long since we've heard from ya so you were on my hitlist here once again to reach on out to and say HEY.

Good to hear from you, hope you're well - hunkered down there in hibernation mode as I am here I imagine... sigh!

anywho, back on topic!
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #265 (permalink)
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hey Old Guy,, was wondering if you were stuck in a snowbank somewhere. Good to hear from ya
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #266 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
I also think we can soon provide information on a DIY $10 interface that will allow the MS ECU to directly control the 6 & 8 pin Bosch CDI ignition boxes meaning spark mapping will be possible too
Any further development on this topic?
Old 02-05-2015, 09:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #267 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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I have a possible solution that in theory should generate the required negative voltage to trigger the ignition box, it's just not yet been tested.

Mine being a 928 has an 8 Pin CDI - which I believe is basically the same internally as the 6pin 911 unit. The system triggers as the voltage goes below Zero so a RS232 serial driver chip may do the trick. I have a spare ignition box so if it all goes horribly wrong I don't blow my original good one

The test should be possible shortly after I get the beast running again with the new CIS-E fuel system over the weekend.

Alternatively a MSD ignition definitely works with the MicroSquirt and we also know the MicroSquirt is happy to take a direct feed from the VR sensor in the distributor.
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 02-05-2015, 10:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #268 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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a bit of relevant info from the 934 CIS thread Information about the 934 CIS Injection

Quote:
(edited) The metering arm only needs to travel 37 +/- 1 mm down to fully expose the metering slit. Thatīs about 8 mm before full travel.
If it travels more than that the control plunger lifts up too high and starts blocking the fuel from entering the barrel.
the stopper bolt modification identified in the later posts might be of benefit for anyone wanting to push the limits.

Now moving on to an interesting CIS-E upgrade issue

It appears the metering cones between CIS and CIS-E differ in two respects

First.
the CIS cone is shaped giving a variable ratio between airflow and control piston movement which makes sense as the fuel demands change according to RPM and throttle position - so a physical fuel map.
the CIS-E cone shape appears linear which also makes sense as the fuel ratio is now mapped and controlled by the Bosch ECU
this difference could likely be disregarded if upgrading to a CIS-E head as the physical map in the stepped cone could be negated and corrected by the FrankenCIS ECU. My initial static tests seemed to support this as the DPR has a quite substantial range of control.

Second.
And this one appear to be a bit of a coin toss on importance.
the CIS cone is shaped with the rest point of the air plate right at the narrowest part of the inlet. A triangular cross section at the rest point!
the CIS-E cone shape has a large area of constant diameter at the air plate rest point to allow for the extended dead zone between full FD shutoff and the beginning point of actual fuel delivery. Bosch Specs have the rest point of the air plate at ~5.5mm higher than the earlier systems and 2.2mm of free play between rest and contact with the control piston. This region is visible in the photos of posts 251 and 255
Now this is where the coin toss comes in. My testing has established that the CIS-E head on the CIS metering body does work but required 2.5 turns CW of the mixture screw to get fuel to flow at the same point. This means the control piston is pre loaded and therefore not resting on the bottom of the bore when the engine is off as designed. Is this a bad thing short or long term? I have no idea, but because I'm a bit silly I'm swapping to a matching Mercedes upper metering assembly to ensure a matched set.
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com

Last edited by Reanimotion; 02-10-2015 at 02:02 AM..
Old 02-10-2015, 01:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #269 (permalink)
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Just received my replacement metering block. Looking good!
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Old 02-10-2015, 02:20 PM
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Steve,

I've been looking for something to upgrade my 1988 560 Mercedes CIS-E system for a supercharger I'm installing. Unlike your situation, I have the proper original metering body and fuel system, and the CIS-E has the black DPR which I assume is the KE3-Jetronic,

Are you saying that only the MicroSquirt and your 'Little' Interface Board for connecting the MicroSquirt to the DRP are required for this setup? What would be the cost for components required from you?

My car is the ECE version and has no factory O2 sensor, so I would be adding one. What other sensors would be required to be added? IAT Sensor, MAP Sensor, Engine Temp, etc.??

Thanks
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1983 911 SC Cabriolet
1988 Mercedes 560 SEC Koenig Specials

Last edited by sbeavenx; 02-10-2015 at 03:03 PM..
Old 02-10-2015, 02:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #271 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Hi Steve,

Correct, the FrankenDPR module allows MicroSquirt to directly control the DPR.

Talk to Mike at Dkubus info@dkubus.com
He is distributing the system in kit form and has extensive Mercedes experience, races an SLC, and joined our development of the CIS and CIS-E products in August specifically for their supercharger kit. I believe they are doing a 560 install later this month, so he should be able to give you specific guidance on your application.
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 02-10-2015, 03:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #272 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
Just received my replacement metering block. Looking good!
Excellent! let the fun begin
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 02-10-2015, 03:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #273 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
Just received my replacement metering block. Looking good!
Kenik, yours is a 930 application, correct?
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #274 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nkowi View Post
Kenik, yours is a 930 application, correct?
Yes. I am going to talk to Uwe tomorrow. Tried calling today, forgetting that there is a 3 hour time difference.
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:38 PM
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Right on! Here's hoping you find great success with this thing. Can hardly wait for your updates.
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #276 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
Hi Steve,

Correct, the FrankenDPR module allows MicroSquirt to directly control the DPR.

Talk to Mike at Dkubus info@dkubus.com
He is distributing the system in kit form and has extensive Mercedes experience, races an SLC, and joined our development of the CIS and CIS-E products in August specifically for their supercharger kit. I believe they are doing a 560 install later this month, so he should be able to give you specific guidance on your application.
Thanks Steve. I sent an email to Mike for more info. We'll see what he has to say.
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Steve

1983 911 SC Cabriolet
1988 Mercedes 560 SEC Koenig Specials
Old 02-10-2015, 04:39 PM
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Although I have sent an email to Mike as well, I'm not really looking for a Kit. I have a Microsquirt already that I found for a good deal, and am at the point that I just need to control the EHA (what you call the DPR). Much like yourself, I like the DYI approach and been looking at other options for the EHA, but it sounds like your interface board is the way to go. Can this be purchased stand alone? Do you have them available anywhere such as ebay?
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Steve

1983 911 SC Cabriolet
1988 Mercedes 560 SEC Koenig Specials

Last edited by sbeavenx; 02-10-2015 at 06:22 PM..
Old 02-10-2015, 05:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #278 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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Yes, the components can definitely be purchased individually. We are waiting on the first batch of production units to be completed at the moment. ETA is about two weeks.

There will be an announcement as soon as they are available for sale.
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com

Last edited by Reanimotion; 02-10-2015 at 06:07 PM..
Old 02-10-2015, 06:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #279 (permalink)
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Great, let us know when you have more information.
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Steve

1983 911 SC Cabriolet
1988 Mercedes 560 SEC Koenig Specials
Old 02-10-2015, 06:14 PM
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