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Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
It's really interesting and cool what you're doing with CIS.
I wonder if anyone has ever put a 928 motor into a 911? American V8's have been put into them.
Overhead cam engines are significantly bigger than their Overhead Valve counterparts. The Chevy SB engine is very compact, offers a dry sump oil system, which allows the engine to sit lower in the chassis. Center-of-Gravity approaching that of the 911 engine, but not quite.
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Old 02-23-2015, 04:25 PM
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914 + 928 v8 = ???

=918 v8
Old 02-23-2015, 05:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #302 (permalink)
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The latest addition to the FrankenCIS family

DPR/EHA electronic control interfaces for CIS-E fuel heads
(our WUR module on the left for size comparison)

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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com

Last edited by Reanimotion; 02-24-2015 at 12:45 AM..
Old 02-23-2015, 10:52 PM
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I am so ready to do this on my 965!!

Can anybody start putting a grocery list of items to start collecting to put "Franken CIS" on a 911 Turbo?
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Old 02-24-2015, 03:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #304 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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^ See the first post. Beyond that, you just need a compatible ECU. Currently that is just MegaSquirt 2 based systems. When work stops crushing me, I am going to talk to Electromotive and see if they're willing to update their Tec3r firmware to support it. They have done some "on request" work for me in the past, so am optimistic.
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Old 02-24-2015, 03:54 PM
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connection diagrams for the three main configurations supported





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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com

Last edited by Reanimotion; 07-22-2015 at 07:18 AM..
Old 03-01-2015, 08:20 PM
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Waiting for results from the 930 CIS basic beta testers. This will really be great for us old school CIS diehards if it works.
Old 03-02-2015, 07:46 AM
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I'm just starting to look and my setup and am considering a digital WUR from Unwiredtools, although if you are going to be selling a kit or a part kit with a list of additional parts required then I may hang on. Do you have a estimated date this setup will be ready to purchase for the 930?
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Old 03-02-2015, 10:26 AM
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Have you searched unwiredtools here on PP?
Old 03-02-2015, 10:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #309 (permalink)
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Yeah, read all the threads some time ago but thought there maybe some updated feedback with all the issues fixed, doesnt look that way though and after now reading the whole of this thread tonight I would prefer to go FrankenCIS for sure, the minimal Megasquirt version for CIS.
Looking forward to feedback from some 930 installs
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 03-02-2015, 01:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #310 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavinc69 View Post
...if you are going to be selling a kit or a part kit... - ...then I may hang on.
Dkubus is distributing kits and components at present, there will be others as the network grows.
Keep an eye on www.FrankenCIS.com for updates.
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 03-02-2015, 08:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #311 (permalink)
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Steve, thanks again for all your efforts. I am very interested in changing out my ancient CIS injection system, on my otherwise stock 1978 911 SC 3.0.

I read your thread twice now and think I understand this would be an ideal set up for me, all things being equal. I like the concept of the CIC-E/DPR, using the Mercedes 0 438 101 018 or the 0 438 121 037 air flow sensor. Did you have some preference between the 2?

It looks like the six-cylinder fuel distribution head for Mercedes will mount on that distributor, part number 0 438 101 012. I could not tell from the description whether or not the standard airflow sensor that comes with this six-cylinder distribution head would be adequate for your system.

Otherwise, as I understand it, the heart of your system is the micro squirt engine management system for which you have developed firmware which is free for download.

The other parts it seems you need to acquire are your FrankenCIS block, an Injector for that block (although not sure that's required only CIS–E system), the DPR/EHA electronic control interface, a digital control pressure sensor (7 bar), a MAP sensor, an IAT sensor, an engine temperature sensor and a wideband O2 sensor.

which digital control pressure sensor do you recommend at this time? The Chinese one you had a link to is no longer available.

Again, for the CIS–E set up, is there anything else required that I am missing?

it looks like you would need to make up some new fuel lines which would be a good idea anyhow since mine are ancient.

do you know of anyone in the Southern California area who is currently playing with this set up, or thinking of do so, who might be a good ally at this time? Have you heard from any tuners in the Southern California area that have expressed interest in trying this on a 6 cylinder engine?

is there anything else you think I should be considering before making this modification to my air cooled 3.0 engine?

Thanks for your time.

Rob
Old 03-04-2015, 10:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #312 (permalink)
 
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Hi and welcome to the insanity

I'll try and do this in order and clarify as I go along but definitely shout out if the explanation is not good enough.

0 438 101 018 and 0 438 121 037 are the fuel distributor and air plate housing set so are both needed along with the little black DPR on the side of the fuel distributor and a fuel pressure regulator 0 438 161 013
If going CIS-E then the matched pair of head and plate is important as there is an major difference in the air cone shape around the zero point (engine off) that is needed for CIS-E.

the two parts are as per this photo


Now for a 930, the above bits should work - for a 911 SC normally aspirated I'm not sure what the CIS configuration and parts look like so the above may not be correct.
The 6 cylinder (012) version might be cheaper to find and ok for a non turbo but would still need the correct CIS-E air plate housing for your car.



Yes the MicroSquirt is the key bit and for it to work with CIS-E all you need is the DPR/EHA interface as the WUR does not exist in CIS-E and therefore the FrankenCIS block, injector, damper and pressure sensor can be deleted from your list.
you still need MAP and engine temperature sensors etc.

for those looking for the sensor the current listing is Pressure Transducer or Sender 100PSI for Oil Fuel Diesel Gas Air Can'T for Water | eBay They are currently on holiday for Chinese new year but should be back soon
and the more permanent store link is better-purchase-better-life | eBay

I fairly certain I'm the first and only one to ever try and upgrade to CIS-E. There is one tuner that expressed an interest to try and replicate it after they evaluate the normal FrankenCIS system but they are not in your area. So hang on a bit and I should have mine back on the road shortly so you can at least have some confidence that it works on the road not just the workshop.

I'm more than happy to help if you are feeling really brave. Just remember the CIS-E upgrade on mine was done for fun to see if it was possible and to help develop the software without buying another car
So at this early stage you would certainly be a pioneer if you decided to go for it.

and last of all if you decide to do it - make sure you keep all of your existing system intact and protected somewhere so you can put it all back together if it doesn't work out
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com

Last edited by Reanimotion; 03-04-2015 at 11:59 PM..
Old 03-04-2015, 11:52 PM
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Rob,
From a little google searching it looks like the SC is an updraft air plate and therefore the parts I've listed for the 928 and 930 won't work.

I found this photo for an 82


If yours is the same setup you may still be able to use the CIS-E fuel head on the CIS air plate housing but the same test on mine required 2.5 turns of the mixture screw towards rich to make it run. It will just be a bigger experiment

The alternatives are still standard CIS and the FrankenCIS WUR replacement
or
A compromise option might be to change to a CIS lambda head with the frequency valve. It still has the WUR in the system but the Frequency valve is capable of the same fine mixture adjustment as the later CIS-E setup.

I don't want to discourage you if you have the urge to try. I just want to make it clear that you would be venturing into uncharted territory.
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 03-05-2015, 05:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #314 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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an Audi unit might be close
Fuel Distributor 0438 101 029
Air plate housing 0438 121 049

google images or ebay on those numbers for a look
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 03-05-2015, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
0 438 101 018 and 0 438 121 037 are the fuel distributor and air plate housing...



Now for a 930, the above bits should work - for a 911 SC normally aspirated I'm not sure what the CIS configuration and parts look like so the above may not be correct.
The 6 cylinder (012) version might be cheaper to find and ok for a non turbo but would still need the correct CIS-E air plate housing for your car.
Okay, what am I missing? The 930 engine is six-cylinder, while the parts noted above are for an eight ...
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Old 03-05-2015, 07:11 AM
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I believe the 930 uses a fuel distributor based on the v8 configuration with two ports blocked off or inactive, the injector line layout therefore is not compatible with the 6cyl fuel heads. If someone wanted to upgrade to CIS-E a V8 head with two ports blocked would be the logical choice.

So the 930 Turbo 6 setup is almost identical to my 928 V8 and uses the same or similar castings.
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com

Last edited by Reanimotion; 05-26-2015 at 04:51 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 03-05-2015, 07:38 AM
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Well Hells' bells, don't I look the fool? All I had to do was look (which I did only after your response) and I'd have answered my own question.
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Old 03-05-2015, 07:45 AM
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928 cis-e is looking interesting.
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Old 03-05-2015, 08:20 AM
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Steve, how do I get my hands on the FranenCIS block for basic CIS?
I've checked dkubus | dkubus Modern performance for Classic Mercedes Benz vehicles products page and also http://www.frankencis.com but can't see a way to purchase the block.
All the other parts looks easy enough to purchase via your links

You seem very dedicated to getting this right so I'm happy to jump in now.

I read that there are two options for the MAP sensor depending on if your setup is boosted or not.
( - MAP sensor - 1 bar rated for NA - 3 or more for turbo or charged applications)
Do you have a link for the correct MAP sensor for a turbo application?

Thanks
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Old 03-05-2015, 12:46 PM
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