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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
It should work happily on the MicroSquirt module but has not been physically tested

I'm actually running an older alloy cased MicroSquirt V2.0, which is technically and functionally identical to the 2.2 module you plan to use, so all we would need to do is recompile for your board when you are ready
I'll go ahead with my plans then. I sent an email as well so you can ignore that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
We also have an issue on warm starts without the cold start injector active, no fuel and not turning fast enough to come out of cranking mode – 300rpm is the default setting and we need 100, there will be an updated ini file to allow this
With the Mercedes CIS-E, when the Ignition is on and the Engine is not running, a signal of +75ma is sent to the DPR (Rich). I assume this setting remains until the car starts, but I'm not sure. Could a higher initial setting help out?

Thanks again
Steve
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Steve

1983 911 SC Cabriolet
1988 Mercedes 560 SEC Koenig Specials

Last edited by sbeavenx; 03-23-2015 at 08:38 AM..
Old 03-23-2015, 08:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #341 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbeavenx View Post
Could a higher initial setting help out?
The change to the cranking threshold minimum was all we needed, 300rpm might be fine for a Nissan 4 cylinder, but the best I could record was around 160 on the starter motor so I set it to allow down to 50rpm in the configuration.

With the cold start valve giving a squirt on a cold engine it was ok, as the first kick was enough to trigger fuel output, with a warm engine there isn't that first little puff of fuel to work with to kick it over 300 rpm
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 03-23-2015, 08:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #342 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
The change to the cranking threshold minimum was all we needed, 300rpm might be fine for a Nissan 4 cylinder, but the best I could record was around 160 on the starter motor so I set it to allow down to 50rpm in the configuration.
I just checked. The CIS-E ECU has an input from the starter so it knows the engine is being cranked. It uses this to switch to Cranking Enrichment settings which are tied to engine temp. Your configuration of rpm > 50 essentially replicates this feature?
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Steve

1983 911 SC Cabriolet
1988 Mercedes 560 SEC Koenig Specials
Old 03-23-2015, 08:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #343 (permalink)
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yes
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 03-23-2015, 02:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #344 (permalink)
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I found a photo of the engine bay with the eWUR prototype fitted (Type 1 with external damper and sensor)

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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 03-25-2015, 06:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #345 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post


It's pure stubborn lunacy that started this adventure so don't forget the loony demographic as potential adopters.
Hello from the loony demographic

I'm turbocharging my 1975 Volvo and have been following this project with great anticipation. I have been wanting something like this for years!

So far the testing has dealt with matched air meter/fuel dizzy pairs. Is there any reason to believe that hybrid setups wouldn't work as well? i.e. a Gen 3 dizzy on a Gen1/Gen2 air meter? I know the early meters use the cone as a 'physical map,' but presumably the MS would compensate.

Both the 911 (gen 1 CIS) and 240 turbo (gen 2 CIS) use large, updraft meters with 6 cylinder sized dizzies (2 ports blocked on the Volvo). As there is no direct Gen 3 equivalent, the logical upgrade would be the electronic unit from the Mercedes 300SEL. Any reason to think it wouldn't work?
Old 03-29-2015, 06:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #346 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B20Turbo View Post
Is there any reason to believe that hybrid setups wouldn't work as well? i.e. a Gen 3 dizzy on a Gen1/Gen2 air meter?
No reason whatsoever why it won't work

There may be some compromises in ideal setups due to the differing rest points but the overall arrangement of parts is interchangeable and the electronic control will be able to compensate for most functional differences.

I did try a Gen3 head on a Gen1 air plate housing with success, but felt I needed to replicate an OEM configuration for accurate development and I required the air plate sensor for data logging.
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 03-29-2015, 07:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #347 (permalink)
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I've just survived a weekend of tuning and diagnostics, and thought an update was in order.

FrankenCIS eWUR based systems are still the easiest to implement by far !

CIS-E development is proving to be all about the tune and balancing the multitude of options available. There has been an interim update to the firmware files that incorporate some of the adjustments. We will continue to post details on the support website as they emerge.

I think I've managed to kill a wideband sensor so will put tuning on hold until the ordered replacement arrives, which gives us some time to refine the documentation.
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 03-29-2015, 10:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #348 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
No reason whatsoever why it won't work

There may be some compromises in ideal setups due to the differing rest points but the overall arrangement of parts is interchangeable and the electronic control will be able to compensate for most functional differences.

I did try a Gen3 head on a Gen1 air plate housing with success, but felt I needed to replicate an OEM configuration for accurate development and I required the air plate sensor for data logging.
Thanks for the reply. I'm very excited to try this once the machine work and fabrication phase of the project is complete.
Old 03-31-2015, 07:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #349 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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There is a firmware update available now on the downloads page of the website

FrankenCIS 5.4.4k - which addresses the issues mentioned for CIS-E applications

http://www.frankencis.com/wiki/ArticleID/2/FrankenCIS-Firmware

On the road testing and self tuning over the last 24 hours has provided good results
I do need a real TPS sensor to take advantage of the fuel cuts and closed loop idle though. The air plate sensor is ok as a secondary MAF but useless as a TPS.
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com

Last edited by Reanimotion; 04-12-2015 at 02:02 AM..
Old 04-03-2015, 04:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #350 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
There is a firmware update available now on the downloads page of the website

FrankenCIS 5.4.4k - which addresses the issues mentioned for CIS-E applications

http://www.frankencis.com:8084/wiki/ArticleID/2/FrankenCIS-Firmware
Hi Steve,

I've been bench testing the Firmware on my Microsquirt Module and everything seems to be working good. I now have a better understanding of the adjustment you made to "Cranking RPM" setting. Although the fuel is now supplied when cranking, it is using your Speed Density fuel formula rather the the 'Cranking Pulse %' settings.

What I understand is the MSExtra approach is to have two different fuel formulas, one for cranking and one for running. The formulas transition at the "Cranking RPM" setting, utilizing a the "Cranking Pulse %" calculation when RPM is below the setting, and the Speed Density fuel formula above the setting. This is why the documentation says to set Cranking RPM above actual cranking RPM by 200. This ensures the Cranking Pulse % calculation is used during cranking, but still low enough that Speed Density is used at idle.

The cranking pulse used with injectors in normally calculated by multiplying REQ_FUEL times the Cranking Pulse %, which is based on the coolant temperature. Although this approach would not work for your DPR mA calculation, REQ_FUEL could be set to 100 (0mA) and then multiplied by the Cranking Pulse % setting to arrive at the final value (ie. Cranking Pulse % = 140% --> 100*140 = 140 or +40mA). This would allow fine tuning cranking fuel independently of the Speed Density formula.

What do you think?
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1983 911 SC Cabriolet
1988 Mercedes 560 SEC Koenig Specials
Old 04-07-2015, 02:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #351 (permalink)
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The same approach is valid in CIS-E according to VW


A Cranking value, transitioning to After Start Enrichment, then standard Warm Up Enrichment.

At present we are only doing the last two with the lower cranking threshold, I'm working on introducing the Cranking value for RPM > 50 to give us the three, but at present the After Start Enrichment set for a large value and a short taper time seems to work nicely


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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 04-07-2015, 04:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #352 (permalink)
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updated source code published
FrankenCIS_ms2extra.5.4.4k.zip
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 04-12-2015, 02:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #353 (permalink)
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I had some time yesterday to do some further tuning of the system and overall I'm now very pleased with how the engine is performing.

As I happily stated earlier, I'm definitely not an experienced engine tuner, so this side of things is a learning experience for me and I'm probably a good example of an average potential user.

I had a play with the AFR table generator in Tuner Studio, and then ran the results against the live tune facility and took the car for an extended run in both City and Highway environments to see what it would do.

firstly the AFR table, the below was generated using the published figures for my particular engine, and differs a bit from the safer default map.


After my little drive we ended up with the following VE table



Generally good driveability overall and part throttle cruise at 60mph seemed to be much stronger than I remember from the original system.

Log snapshot (gpioadc6 is the actual final corrected output to the DPR in mA)
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 04-13-2015, 06:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #354 (permalink)
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in the 5.4.4 release there is a bug in the tuner studio gauge calculation for Control Pressure meaning it will display a lower than actual value
re-download 5.4.4 and update your ini file from the zip again - they are dated 22 April instead of the 4th
From within Tuner Studio
File menu
Projects
Project properties
Then tick the browse box
Find the file and load


or go into your project folder and in the projectcfg edit maincontroller.ini

at line 5400 or near the bottom you want to update the two lines to read
kJetCP = { adc6 } ; Setup for converting 0-5.01V = 0 - 700kPa where cp0=-86.2, cpmax=775.7
kJetSP = { adc7 } ; Setup for converting 0-5.01V = 0 - 700kPa where cp0=-86.2, cpmax=775.7
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 04-22-2015, 02:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #355 (permalink)
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I was wondering if there were any recent developments with anyone applying this system to their old CIS systems for a 6 cylinder 911 engine?
Old 04-22-2015, 06:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #356 (permalink)
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Not yet. Should be soon.
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- 1979 930
Old 04-22-2015, 06:18 PM
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I thought this guy built it for a 928? That's why I stopped following it.
Old 04-22-2015, 06:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #358 (permalink)
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He installed his on a 928. It will work on any CIS motor...Benz, Porsche, Bimmer, you name it. I'll fill you in on my progress this November when I'm back in Melbourne.
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- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 04-22-2015, 06:45 PM
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Cool, looking forward to someone pioneering another alternative for us flat 6 owners...
Old 04-22-2015, 07:43 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #360 (permalink)
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