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Just add lightness...
 
prebordao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Portugal
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The eWUR (a bit grainy)



And a small relay that I added. I'm using the original oil temp sensor for both providing the input to the ECU and for controlling the temp gauge. As the ECU only needs the temp data when starting, it later commands the relay to switch the sensor back to the gauge.

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pjr
74' Lime Green 911S Targa
nineelevenophilia.wordpress.com
Old 06-12-2015, 06:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #381 (permalink)
Old car guy.....
 
Hot Euro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lubbock, Texas
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So..... How does it run and what was the cost$
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Steve
1981 SC Steel Widebody, 930/51 to 3.2l, K27 7006 Turbo, P&P Twin Plug heads, Twinfire Ignition, Ruf Intercooler, Powerhaus headers, Zork, CIS Euro FD, 009 injectors, 044 pump, BLwur, 930 4 sp LSD, Mocal 44 w/fan, LM2, Brembo, Retroair, Euromeisters
2003 BMW Z4 Daily Driver & Autocross car.
Old 06-12-2015, 06:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #382 (permalink)
Just add lightness...
 
prebordao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
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It runs as well / normal as a good condition WUR should run, I think. Starts well in hot / cold conditions.

I just went this way because my old WUR (type -001) was getting too temperamental - I could adjust it for cold starts but then warm running would suffer, or vice versa. And also because I liked the challenge
Also on the plus side, it allows you to tweak the warm and cold control pressures if you so desire, as well as the "leaning cycle" duration.

Cost: Cheap !
- The metering block was a free pre-prod prototype from Steve.
- The injector is a used one from an Impreza (20-30, I think)
- The electronics + relay were about 20-25 USD
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pjr
74' Lime Green 911S Targa
nineelevenophilia.wordpress.com
Old 06-12-2015, 06:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #383 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by prebordao View Post
My "package" isn't as nice, but here it is. This is what Steve meant as an ultra-lite application:

The tiny ECU box between the 2 relays



The eWUR (a bit grainy)
I'm thinking it would be cool to hide it inside an empty defroster relay housing. Placed in position5 it would be almost invisible


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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-12-2015, 10:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #384 (permalink)
Just add lightness...
 
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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That would be cool... very stealthy.
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pjr
74' Lime Green 911S Targa
nineelevenophilia.wordpress.com
Old 06-13-2015, 03:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #385 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 479
We are currently playing with the ignition control side of things while waiting for some of the folks here to complete installs.

apart from the obvious advantages of RPM mapping, one of the more logical but surprising outcomes has been tuning for a stable idle by using Timing and Fuel.

This is a fairly common OEM strategy and gives a rock steady target when done properly.

The following maps are from a SAAB and give a pretty good representation of what is going on.

RPM falls - add timing and a bit of fuel
RPM climbs - subtract timing and lean it out a tiny bit

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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com

Last edited by Reanimotion; 06-27-2015 at 06:44 PM..
Old 06-27-2015, 06:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #386 (permalink)
 
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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The MegaSquirt has adaptive Idle timing in a lower resolution but still perfectly functional form.

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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-27-2015, 06:43 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #387 (permalink)
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I'm conceding that my race car and the job that makes the race car possible will never allow me the free time to install this kit on my daily driver. If you're in the USA and want to hit the easy button:
FrankenCIS Digital WUR
Old 06-28-2015, 11:49 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #388 (permalink)
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I have read through the thread and see there are several ways to implement this solution. I am interested in the set up the above member has for sale, as I also have a 911 SC, but am wondering what else is required to install this hardware and get the car in tune.

Are there any pre-existing tunes available for a stock 1978 911 SC with large port heads, running Euro compression, at So Cal altitudes and temperatures? Any other hardware required besides a wide band 02 sensor?

Any info would be appreciated.

Rob
Old 06-28-2015, 04:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #389 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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I would suggest it needs a suitable temperature sensor, and the mentioned WBO2 sensor (we like the Spartan2 from 14point7)
Some general wiring consumables and connectors as well as plugs for the sensors and injector. The loom is pretty simple to make if you have basic wiring experience, and as you can see from the photos of the Dkubus kits, a bit of heat shrink and some braided sleeve makes for a very nice looking harness with a little bit of care.
Any exhaust shop can install the o2 bung for you.

Base maps are not really needed as we begin from flat tables (Zero or 100%)
Once installed, the base Control Pressure Curve is then set according to your factory WUR specs.

At this point you have an accurate basic WUR controlled system that will match the stock fuelling, and fine tuning can begin from there.

have a read of the FrankenCIS manual for the fuelling setup FrankenCIS Manual - Downloads

The MicroSquirt manual should be used for the installation and Basic RPM trigger using the tacho output is the easiest to setup initially http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/Microsquirt_Hardware-3.3.pdf
The system can be converted to more accurate engine sensors and toothed wheels etc. later if desired.
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-28-2015, 05:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #390 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Folks,

One of the unknowns at the moment is the best way to easily get engine temperature on those air cooled motors of yours.

Is there a hot side to your air shrouding that could easily accept the installation of an Air temperature sensor? I'm thinking that would be easier than trying to install an additional oil temp unit.

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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-28-2015, 05:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #391 (permalink)
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Steve,
What is the operating temperature environment that the pictured sensor runs in? Is that something we could mount externally on a heat exchanger? Do you only need it for cold starts?
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Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 06-29-2015, 05:54 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #392 (permalink)
Just add lightness...
 
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Steve, for my "homegrown" EFI system, I'm planning to use a coolant sensor in place of the current thermo valve.
The thermo valve will not be needed (I think all Basic-CIS have it) and it sits nicely where it's most needed: the cylinder head.
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pjr
74' Lime Green 911S Targa
nineelevenophilia.wordpress.com
Old 06-29-2015, 06:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #393 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Thanks Paulo

Dave, the sensor is rated at -40C to +130C with an open element, how hot do the exchangers get?
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-29-2015, 06:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #394 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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That should work great. I don't think the exchanger, at least in the farthest regions near the hot air outlets, should it get any hotter than 100 C.
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 06-29-2015, 06:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #395 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
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Why not use a CHT for this function?
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 06-29-2015, 06:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #396 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
Thanks Paulo

Dave, the sensor is rated at -40C to +130C with an open element, how hot do the exchangers get?
Good question. I don't know, but I suspect it depends on where the sensor would be mounted. If it were mounted further up towards the area where the exchanger connects to the hose ducting, it might be in the temp range of the sensor illustrated.

On later model 911's with automatic temperature controls, there is a sensor mounted near the butterfly valve that goes to the control box. This scenario may work for cold start situations, but may be to inconsistent for normal/seasonal operation.

I think the best solution would something mounted to #2 or #5 cylinder head inside the valve cover. I wonder if any of the more modern air cooled motorcycle engines that utilize EFI, may have something that would work. Harley-Davidson?
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Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 06-29-2015, 07:18 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #397 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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All you need is this: BOS-0-280-130-012 - HEAD TEMP SENSOR BEETLE 75-79 / TYPE 3 68-73 / BUS 74-79 / VANAGON 80-83
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 06-29-2015, 07:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #398 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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temp curve for the Bosch 0280 130 012

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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-29-2015, 07:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #399 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North of Exit 17
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So the verdict is that it is good?
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 06-29-2015, 07:50 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #400 (permalink)
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