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3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
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[QUOTE=prebordao;8664247]The eWUR (a bit grainy)
And a small relay that I added. I'm using the original oil temp sensor for both providing the input to the ECU and for controlling the temp gauge. As the ECU only needs the temp data when starting, it later commands the relay to switch the sensor back to the gauge.

Paulo, I am attempting to something similar to your setup: using a conventional fuel injector table to manage the injector in the FrankenWUR block that sets control pressure.

I'm hoping you might be able to share screenshots of your injector tables. Although I am attempting this on a 930 (and thus the data points won't translate), having your tables as a starting point will be helpful, as I'll be able to apply some calculations against the, which should result in a workable baseline for a turbo application.

I've sent you a PM, as well.

For everyone else, this is along the lines of what I'm referring to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
Still having fun tuning the vehicles here

Both Mercedes and the 928 all seem to be responding properly to the control of fuel delivery and both street vehicles are much snappier to respond to throttle after tuning to the calculated AFR targets

for reference I have listed below RPM MAP AFR tables generated from the log file AFR readings from the wideband sensors. So these are actuals not targets

The first is my 928 with a stock CIS and WUR system tuned to factory specs (ignore the 7.46 readings as this is sensor warm up)
The second IS my 928 on CIS-E (ignore the 7.40 readings as this is sensor warm up)
The third is the Mercedes SL on CIS with eWUR

Stock CIS (928)


FrankenCIS DPR (928)


FrankenCIS eWUR (Mercedes SL)
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Last edited by kenikh; 12-14-2015 at 02:48 PM..
Old 12-14-2015, 02:40 PM
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Apologies in advance for not reading all 25 pages of this thread - So, I've got a '74 911 all stock CIS. WUR is nearing the end of it's useful life.
When this project happens it will also include upgrade from stock CDI to MSD 6AL.
What sort of cost are we talking for the basic WUR relpacement system, including import duties, conversion to US $ and shipping to the state of Oregon?
Thanks.
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Old 01-04-2016, 10:26 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #482 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Import duties? Did Oregon institute some crazy laws I don't know about?

Dkubus FrankenCIS e-WUR DIY build package $1,245 USD - FrankenCIS FEWURDIY : FrankenCIS
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 01-04-2016, 11:09 AM
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OR is a different planet still not allowed to pump your own fuel


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Old 01-04-2016, 11:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #484 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 935K3 View Post
OR is a different planet still not allowed to pump your own fuel


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I always pump my own in OR. No one dares try to pump gas into an old 911 anymore.
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:29 AM
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Whatever. All I'm asking for is a number here.
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Bone stock 1974 911S Targa. Kickin' it old school.
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #486 (permalink)
 
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3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Freeborn View Post
Whatever. All I'm asking for is a number here.
That number is up above in my first post. $1245. Soup to nuts.
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- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 01-04-2016, 12:01 PM
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Thanks.
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Bone stock 1974 911S Targa. Kickin' it old school.
Just because you can doesn't mean you should...
Old 01-04-2016, 01:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #488 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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please contact Mike at sales@dkubus.com for specific pricing when needed
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1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 01-04-2016, 03:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #489 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
please contact Mike at sales@dkubus.com for specific pricing when needed
Will do. Thanks. Still kicking around what to do with the old girl. Looking for the best bang for the buck.
Cheers,
-C
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Old 01-04-2016, 09:09 PM
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I'm assuming that includes the Megasquirt ?
I'm building a retro 934 from my 930. The 934 used CIS but it had a custom outlet plenum almost direct downdraft to the turbo compressor inlet, the metering plate was replaced with a aluminum cone, info I have states that system had twice the airflow of the production unit. Interestingly the factory 934 manual shows the original car didn't even have a WUR just a manual adjustable fuel pressure regulator.

Question: higher the rail pressure = lower fuel flow at fuel head ? Did get that right, the opposite of what you would think ?

Later picture I have seen a 934 with a WUR mounted on the side of the 934 outlet plenum
My plan so I could hopefully run the car in 934 eligible events was not to modify the fuel flow, just fab the outlet plenum, the "ally metering cone " is available from Germany, then run a hidden EFI system on top, I know it will take a lot of work to get the fueling correct so I would need the CIS to be at a low fuel flow rate that is stable across the rev range and temps so I could rely on the EFI system



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Old 01-05-2016, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 935K3 View Post
I'm assuming that includes the Megasquirt ?
I'm building a retro 934 from my 930. The 934 used CIS but it had a custom outlet plenum almost direct downdraft to the turbo compressor inlet, the metering plate was replaced with a aluminum cone, info I have states that system had twice the airflow of the production unit. Interestingly the factory 934 manual shows the original car didn't even have a WUR just a manual adjustable fuel pressure regulator.
They did flow more, yes, and had relatively flat fuel curves thanks to a combination of
a. the airflow meter
b. the FD+WUR

I would not be surprised if some had no WUR because they really didn't operate under a wide range of conditions, just one: flat-out. Racing. Easy to tune fuel for WOT only when you don't have to factor in cold start, low speed / part throttle, etc.
We have had race 930s in the shop with a simple adjustable pressure regulator, or no manifold referencing. It works for power, just not optimal for all driving condtitions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 935K3 View Post
Question: higher the rail pressure = lower fuel flow at fuel head ? Did get that right, the opposite of what you would think ?
Higher control pressure = less fuel out injectors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 935K3 View Post
Later picture I have seen a 934 with a WUR mounted on the side of the 934 outlet plenum
My plan so I could hopefully run the car in 934 eligible events was not to modify the fuel flow, just fab the outlet plenum, the "ally metering cone " is available from Germany, then run a hidden EFI system on top, I know it will take a lot of work to get the fueling correct so I would need the CIS to be at a low fuel flow rate that is stable across the rev range and temps so I could rely on the EFI system
We have two of those metering systems in stock, happy to help you out.



If you're competing in something like the Youngtimer series, the EFI is prohibited. They are much more strict about following the rules, not just the letter of the law but the spirit as well (ex: even though period-correct parts, no RSR ITBs on your 934-tribute car).
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Old 01-05-2016, 10:03 AM
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Just to be clear:
When talking of manual or simple adjustable regulator, is it something like this?


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Old 01-05-2016, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balleta View Post
Just to be clear:
When talking of manual or simple adjustable regulator, is it something like this?


Sent from my LG-D950 using Tapatalk


Sent from my LG-D950 using Tapatalk
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:26 PM
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Haha, yeah, that's it.
What was that called, "The Powerbox" or something like that?
Classic early '90s part from the same company that made a too-small billet air filter.
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Old 01-05-2016, 02:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #495 (permalink)
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It was there when I bought the car. Have been asking and nobody knows of it until now. I have issues with hot/warm starts and was thinking to get a stock WUR.

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911 C2 Turbo Look
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Old 01-05-2016, 03:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #496 (permalink)
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Stock, Leask, or this programmable unit.
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Old 01-05-2016, 04:45 PM
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Nice to see Chris chiming in on this, I would like to see what TurboKraft can do with one of these systems, I'm betting that Chris can make some extra HP , now that people are turning away from EFI on the 930's , I personally like the old CIS fuel system, how about it Chris .....
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Old 01-05-2016, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heliolps2 View Post
"...now that people are turning away from EFI on the 930's..."
A little OT, but while some speculating on values and putting cars back to stock -- even though they aren't selling their cars -- TurboKraft is doing more EFI conversions than ever before. We still do plenty of CIS engines, but more and more EFI jobs.
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Old 01-06-2016, 08:20 AM
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Those cast fuel rails look soooo pretty. or are those milled?
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Old 01-06-2016, 09:08 AM
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