Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
gavinc69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bournemouth UK
Posts: 996
Garage
I have a few parts from my FrankenCIS for sale if anyone is interested :

FrankenCIS parts
__________________
1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 11-19-2016, 02:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #641 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 441
try rotating the unit 180 degrees?
that should put the injector within the original WUR footprint on the throttle body corner and the damper toward the free space on the passenger side of the engine, pointing away from the throttle body
The pressure sensor should then also pass beside the throttle body toward the driver side

The below shot taken from an old for sale thread is apparently an 86
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 11-19-2016, 05:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #642 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 610
Solution for me was to fabricate a new bracket rotating the eWUR block 90 degrees with the damper towards the rear of the car and offsetting towards the front of the car by about 5/8". Easy for me to do as I have the entire intake out of the car and assembled on the bench.

Documenting here for anyone else planning this installation showing the damper fouling the TB boss.



FWIW for anyone else doing similar, I'm fitting a new TK longneck intercooler. After fiddling for 20 minutes trying to make the hoses for the vacuum limiter fit, I found it easier and and a better fit to throw away the U shaped piece of hose that is supposed to go from the center of the diverter to the manifold and use the cut off piece of the multi-bend squiggly hose that goes from the intercooler to the offset fitting on the diverter. It works perfectly with no kinks (unlike some members of this forum)

Old 11-19-2016, 06:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #643 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North of Exit 17
Posts: 7,707
For an 86, why not delete the eWUR, then control fueling from the lambda input?
__________________

- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 11-19-2016, 08:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #644 (permalink)
Knee Pads are Overrated!
 
Rawknees'Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Norf TexASS
Posts: 6,824
^^^

Speaking of kinky forum members; none more bent than Kenik-la'-Freak!!!
Old 11-19-2016, 08:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #645 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 610
Kenik

Can you elaborate? I'm planning on using both the eWUR and the FV as Inj1 and 2.

Last edited by flightlead404; 11-21-2016 at 06:38 AM..
Old 11-20-2016, 06:07 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #646 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 441
It's possible to omit the eWUR and retain the stock Bosch WUR
then have FrankenCIS control the Frequency valve only on Lambda heads

The disadvantage is the stock Bosch WUR still needs to be correctly calibrated manually and you lose one possible dynamic tune factor (Control Pressure)

The advantage is overall lower cost and stock appearance, and you still have dynamic control of the Frequency valve for fuel
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 11-20-2016, 06:18 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #647 (permalink)
Turbofrog
 
smurfbus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,358
I have that lambda port control with AIC1 only. I'm going EFI now so I might sell it if there is interest. Needs BL WUR though to ease tuning. You have a aic map to control lambda line (overall fueling) and blwur to control warm up and easy spring/summer temp adjustments. Works fine up to about 400-450whp then fueling starts to get lean. Stock look but I removed air valve too and use hand trottle for cold start. This frankenstuff is more refined though.
__________________
************************************************** *******************************
79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 11-20-2016, 06:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #648 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North of Exit 17
Posts: 7,707
CIS rules apply with this route to get greater than 450 HP. You can get bigger power, but like CIS requires fuel head work and BL WUR. The good news is the results of fuel head work SHOULD be more linear and tractable than the non FrankenCIS route, given the exceptional ability of using the lambda control to lean things out.

I'm still a ways away from removing my electromotive, but I'll be using a Mercedes fuel head in my car, since it is a 79. I'm going to have the fuel head opened up and the silver head black crinkle powder lambda black to look like iron. Already have a BL WUR. Will be fun.
__________________

- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 11-20-2016, 08:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #649 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
It's possible to omit the eWUR and retain the stock Bosch WUR
then have FrankenCIS control the Frequency valve only on Lambda heads

The disadvantage is the stock Bosch WUR still needs to be correctly calibrated manually and you lose one possible dynamic tune factor (Control Pressure)

The advantage is overall lower cost and stock appearance, and you still have dynamic control of the Frequency valve for fuel
Right, that was my thinking. I didn't want to spend the $ for the BLWUR which it sounds like I'd still need, and possibly some Rube Goldberg Pierburg switches and .....

This way is clean, elegant, controllable.......just hope it works lol
Old 11-20-2016, 08:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #650 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 610
Given that I'm putting on headers, K27/29, hooligan, TK intercooler....should I be looking at replacing my injectors with Euro's? Stock US 1986 fuel head and fuel lines.
Old 11-21-2016, 06:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #651 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TurboKraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by flightlead404 View Post
Given that I'm putting on headers, K27/29, hooligan, TK intercooler....should I be looking at replacing my injectors with Euro's? Stock US 1986 fuel head and fuel lines.
How much power are you looking to make?
We've done a steady repeatable 375whp on USA injectors.
__________________
Chris Carroll
TurboKraft, Inc.
Tel. 480.969.0911
email: info@turbokraft.com
http://www.facebook.com/TurboKraft - http://www.instagram.com/TurboKraft
Old 11-21-2016, 09:07 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #652 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
How much power are you looking to make?
We've done a steady repeatable 375whp on USA injectors.
I doubt I'll do that on the current set of mods. Perhaps when I go SC cams and 3.4 jugs I"ll need EU injectors then.
Old 11-21-2016, 10:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #653 (permalink)
Registered User
 
micheloaks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 666
just bought the parts from Gavin and looking to acquire the remaining items to create the 'system' to suit my 76 911.

So will go back to the beginning of this thread to gain understanding of what lies ahead, noting I'm not a 'elec tech head'. Though do enjoy the discussions.

Ironically given it is an OZ product, if I get this installed and working likely to be the first in OZ to do so.?? Or is there anyone in OZ currently doing the install?

Also if anyone has surplus parts needed to complete the kit, let me know. Probably look to upgrade the distributor to electronic if its also worth considering or, some other way of controlling spark than points.

CAVEAT is all this to be done, once my other elec/engine issue is resolved.


Cheers Michel
Old 11-21-2016, 06:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #654 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
The manual is correct for direct coil connection, but assumes a points based ignition.
sorry for the incorrect assumption on +/- in the post as I've never used that configuration

I had Opto+ connected to the tachometer output of the Porsche CDI ignition controller and Opto- simply grounded

If your tachometer is fed from the 123 ignition box and not the coil then tapping in there may give results
Steve

Just to confirm, the tacho output you are talking about is the black/violet wire coming off the CDI that goes into the 2-pin connector. This is used as a test connection for running a tach for timing etc purposes?

I ask because in the workshop manual it says "The test line is connected to the black/violet wire coming from the control unit, which normally is connected to terminal 15 of a coil type ignition", and also "With the engine running the black/violet wire delivers about 450v against ground".

Just want to make sure this is connected to OPTO+ before I let the smoke of out my MS

EDIT: Never mind, reading on I see "The 2-pole plug connection near the CDI control unit has been deleted from 1977 models. The wires now lead over the 14-pole plug on the regulator plate." I guess I need to figure out which of these I need to tap in to.

EDIT 2: Looks like it is pin 12 and still Black/Violet. I'm guessing its the same behavior as on the 77 models wrt voltage. Is this the correct one to use?

EDIT 3: Now I'm really confused, can't make heads or tails of these current diagrams. Anyway, pin TD off the 6-pin CDI connector is Violet/Black and looks to be correct if those voltages above are within limits.

Thanks!

Last edited by flightlead404; 12-02-2016 at 06:14 PM..
Old 12-02-2016, 05:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #655 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 441
a 3 pin CDI would have 400+volts on the output to the coil and although it should be 12v on points and tacho there may be peaks much higher in the same way as a traditional points/coil setup

6Pin units on the other hand separated coil drive from tacho drive
reading the schematics of the CDI unit shown here 6-pin SC/Turbo CDI unit repair documentation

it seems the TD (tacho Drive) circuit is simply grounding 12v source from the tachometer on the Black/Violet wire
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com

Last edited by Reanimotion; 12-02-2016 at 07:42 PM..
Old 12-02-2016, 07:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #656 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
a 3 pin CDI would have 400+volts on the output to the coil and although it should be 12v on points and tacho there may be peaks much higher in the same way as a traditional points/coil setup

6Pin units on the other hand separated coil drive from tacho drive
reading the schematics of the CDI unit shown here 6-pin SC/Turbo CDI unit repair documentation

it seems the TD (tacho Drive) circuit is simply grounding 12v source from the tachometer on the Black/Violet wire
So the TD circuit is the one to use, connected to opto+. opto- should be grounded?

I was just reading in the MS manual that if you use OPTO, that VR+ should be connected to +12v. Is that right? It doesn't ring a bell with this thread.
Old 12-02-2016, 07:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #657 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 441
on my 928 with an 8pin CDI,
Quote:
I had Opto+ connected to the tachometer output of the Porsche CDI ignition controller and Opto- simply grounded
as far as I'm aware the VR+ and VR- have been left disconnected on most if not all installs (including my v2.0) with no ill effects

I can't see any reference in the current microsquirt manual on the mentioned setup modification to VR for OPTO input http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/Microsquirt_Hardware-3.4.pdf

VR+ to tacho and VR- disconnected, instead of the OPTO was an option mentioned back in post 617
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 12-02-2016, 08:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #658 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
on my 928 with an 8pin CDI,

as far as I'm aware the VR+ and VR- have been left disconnected on most if not all installs (including my v2.0) with no ill effects

I can't see any reference in the current microsquirt manual on the mentioned setup modification to VR for OPTO input http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/Microsquirt_Hardware-3.4.pdf

VR+ to tacho and VR- disconnected, instead of the OPTO was an option mentioned back in post 617
So my head is spinning right now. It could be the Porsche current flow diagrams, the Perdomo 10th anniversary champagne I'm smoking or the Macallen 24yr I'm enjoying, but I can't find that reference either.

It might have been an outdated reference. I'll use OPTO+ on the Black/Violet pin and fingers crossed.
Old 12-02-2016, 09:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #659 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jeff NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NW NJ
Posts: 1,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by flightlead404 View Post
So my head is spinning right now. It could be the Porsche current flow diagrams, the Perdomo 10th anniversary champagne I'm smoking or the Macallen 24yr I'm enjoying, but I can't find that reference either.

It might have been an outdated reference. I'll use OPTO+ on the Black/Violet pin and fingers crossed.
Pretty sure its the Macallan... That's good stuff!
__________________
1988 930 Venetian Blue
Old 12-02-2016, 09:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #660 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:07 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2016 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.