Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 542
the below is rebuilt from the logs so only shows used cells, but should have the same or similar values to your current VE2 table

you want the dark green cells in the 501 and 800 rpm columns to be the same at 93 to eliminate the VE change when MAP changes for testing

If it still plays up even with the flatter VE values then there is something else in play outside of the FrankenCIS control that is messing with your startup

If the RPM change goes away, then it's simply a matter of refining those cells to get a good idle pre and post the MAP blip on startup

__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 05-01-2017, 06:54 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #841 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 1,251
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
the below is rebuilt from the logs so only shows used cells, but should have the same or similar values to your current VE2 table

you want the dark green cells in the 501 and 800 rpm columns to be the same at 93 to eliminate the VE change when MAP changes for testing

If it still plays up even with the flatter VE values then there is something else in play outside of the FrankenCIS control that is messing with your startup

If the RPM change goes away, then it's simply a matter of refining those cells to get a good idle pre and post the MAP blip on startup

I think those changes in VE in the idle bins might be the artifacts of auto tune when I left it idling. I'll set them all to 93 and see what happens.

Thinking about it, since I don't have EGO control on at that point, and I'm adjusting the idle mixture manually, why shouldn't the be 100?

I think your comment fixed a fundamental flaw in my thinking. I was thinking that since EGO was off in those bins, that the MS wasn't going to make any adjustment, but it still makes the addition/reductions based on the VE table doesn't it?
Old 05-01-2017, 07:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #842 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 542
There are "Advanced Settings" on the right of the Auto Tune screen that can restrict the area it has authority. Keeping it away from the lower RPMs is a good idea.

100 is indeed the ideal value for the cells with manual adjustment of the air plate screw to get idle mixture correct

Yes, VE is the primary actor in the FrankenCIS core calculations and directly affects the Frequency Valve duty, EGO etc. simply alters the output by a percentage of VE if necessary.
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 05-01-2017, 02:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #843 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 1,251
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
There are "Advanced Settings" on the right of the Auto Tune screen that can restrict the area it has authority. Keeping it away from the lower RPMs is a good idea.

100 is indeed the ideal value for the cells with manual adjustment of the air plate screw to get idle mixture correct

Yes, VE is the primary actor in the FrankenCIS core calculations and directly affects the Frequency Valve duty, EGO etc. simply alters the output by a percentage of VE if necessary.
Success!!

This latest issue was entirely due to me having a large step between two cells in the VE2 table. I simply put all 100's in the relevant cells and the hot and cold starting appears to be perfect. I'll get it really hot in the next couple of days and double check, but that looks to be the problem.

Thanks Steve for the assist there, and now I've learned something new.

I have a fitting on the way that will let me connect the digital pressure sensor into the fuel line with the stock WUR in place. I'll use that to see if that weird high pressure situation is still happening. I might be able to use it to collect data to see how my WUR actually behaves rather than how the manual says it should behave. That data may be useful if I try the eWUR again.

Steve, what do you think about trying the eWUR again now some of these other issues have been put to bed? The one advantage I can think of with the eWUR is that by using VE1 I can program a smooth mixture transition as boost comes on, rather than the step that's in the stock vaccuum driven WUR. That might make the lambda valve do less work.

Thoughts?
Old 05-01-2017, 04:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #844 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 542
Excellent news

as for the eWUR, as long as the initial pressure spike we were seeing can be managed or eliminated then the eWUR can certainly be tried again.
I'd wait until the rest of the system is tuned to your satisfaction though to avoid complicating things early
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 05-01-2017, 04:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #845 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North of Exit 17
Posts: 7,732
Another dragon slain! Fantastic!
__________________

- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 05-01-2017, 04:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #846 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4
Garage
Just insyalled the UTcis WUR and its awsome on my 911sc turbo conversion . It has the 930 map in it and idle is soooo smoth now at startup
Old 05-02-2017, 12:21 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #847 (permalink)
Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,298
Garage
^^^^
That's good news Prorace 911, but could you start your own thread so not to muddy the waters of an already lengthy thread? UTcis is another product that is not related to this thread.
__________________
Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 05-02-2017, 10:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #848 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
as for the eWUR, as long as the initial pressure spike we were seeing can be managed or eliminated then the eWUR can certainly be tried again.
If the initial cranking pressure spike is still a problem when and if the eWUR is put back, I'm thinking it might be desirable to introduce a cranking option that holds the eWUR injector open below a certain voltage and RPM. There was a 10% default in the base MegaSquirt code that came into play when the ECU was first powered up that could maybe be inverted.

Purely a what if brain bubble at the moment and will need some research
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 05-02-2017, 03:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #849 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North of Exit 17
Posts: 7,732
Time to slap that eWUR back in and find out.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
__________________

- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 05-02-2017, 04:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #850 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 1,251
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
If the initial cranking pressure spike is still a problem when and if the eWUR is put back, I'm thinking it might be desirable to introduce a cranking option that holds the eWUR injector open below a certain voltage and RPM. There was a 10% default in the base MegaSquirt code that came into play when the ECU was first powered up that could maybe be inverted.

Purely a what if brain bubble at the moment and will need some research
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
Time to slap that eWUR back in and find out.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
I have a fitting on the way that will allow me to connect the digital pressure sensor into the fuel line at the stock WUR. Then we can run some cold start, rapid hot start, and soaking hot start tests and see what the behavior is there before fooling with the eWUR.
Old 05-02-2017, 04:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #851 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North of Exit 17
Posts: 7,732
Can't wait to see what you learn

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
__________________

- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 05-03-2017, 06:24 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #852 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 1,251
Garage
Steve

Can you confirm the FCIS mods are to injector code only and didn't modify anything to so with spark?

I want to use my Microsquirt to run wasted spark ignition as well.

Also, is there a diff file or something to apply your mods to a Megasquirt ?

Cheers
Old 05-14-2017, 05:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #853 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 542
Correct, the FrankenCIS mods are additions to injection code only and enabled by the "Injection Type" selection

Spark and other standard features are unaffected and operate as normal

PWM cooling fan control, does use one of the spark channels (IGN2) so make sure that's disabled

no diff file, but the firmware package on our website has compiled versions for both MicroSquirt and MegaSquirt II (we've only tested the MicroSquirt version so don't support the Megasquirt II)

The source code if compiled can build for the MicroSquirt, MegaSquirt II, MSPNP and the MicroSquirt Module.
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 05-14-2017, 05:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #854 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North of Exit 17
Posts: 7,732
Interesting. Had no idea MS2 would (theoretically) work.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
__________________

- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 05-14-2017, 06:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #855 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 542
yes, all the same processor and base code, just older designs and slight differences for the I/O circuitry on the MS2

I ported the FrankenCIS stuff to MS3 but couldn't work out how to turn off completely their injector code as it's in assembler and runs the core stuff on a co-processor. Plus for the price of the MS3 compared to the AEM and EngineLAB platform the cost involved to continue with the MS3 just made no sense.
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 05-14-2017, 06:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #856 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North of Exit 17
Posts: 7,732
Did you finally get AEM w/ EngineLab working???

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
__________________

- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 05-14-2017, 08:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #857 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 542
technically yes

Models work in simulation, but waiting on the vehicle to be reassembled before ECU and harness can be installed to test

could be a while

__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 05-14-2017, 08:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #858 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Italy
Posts: 52
Fiiiiiuuuuu....

Hi everybody, Hi Steve,

I just finished reading all these 43 pages and English is not my language as you can see..

So I'm very interested in this project because I'm going to supercharge a C124 Mercedes-Benz year 1991 with KE III Jetronic and I need to control fuel and timing..

My BIG question is: With your system and stock distributor and injectors is guaranteed enough gas under boost??

I've talked with Mike and he say that he don't have experience with 6 cylinder turbo or supercharged controlled by your device.

It could be interesting to understand how your system can satisfy the request of more fuel and wich is the limit.

My car has 220 hp in original setting, with the charger I hope to arrive at 300-350.
I could have serious detonation problems you know...

(many other question arrives...)
Old 05-15-2017, 03:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #859 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North of Exit 17
Posts: 7,732
Welcome, Rital24. I purchased a V8 Mercedes distributor for my 930 very cheaply. Best way to find out is test what you have and monitor your air/fuel ratios. If you run out of fuel, time to upgrade. I went for the MB unit because it has Lambda, which with eWUR should be over 500HP capable.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
__________________

- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 05-15-2017, 04:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #860 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:29 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.