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3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North of Exit 17
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Make sure you design a.plug and play adapter harness for switching from Microsquirt to AEM when you're done.

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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 05-26-2017, 10:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #901 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
Yes, I intend to complete the AEM project

I recently removed the MicroSquirt ECU from my car to encourage me
to drive it on the road again I must have the AEM functioning
No AEM == No happiness
Wait, wait, I've already bought a device from Dkubus. I asked if you have finished the project with Aem ecu and you said no.
Ok, now I'm going to buy a Microsquirt (or MSII correct?) to control it.
Is this the best way to follow at the moment?
Lpg can work for the moment with his own ecu.
I can't tune it but no problem,the lpg installer could do that job.
Furthermore I've to supercharge it so, risk is to create confusion in my head considering also that english is not my language...
I hope you excuse me and I please ask you to be patient...:-)
Old 05-26-2017, 11:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #902 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 441
please forgive us for any confusion caused, I will try to clarify below

Quote:
I asked if you have finished the project with Aem ecu and you said no.
Correct, I said No - the AEM project is not finished. And it maybe never finished.


Quote:
Ok, now I'm going to buy a Microsquirt (or MSII correct?) to control it.
Is this the best way to follow at the moment?
Correct, MicroSquirt (or MSII) is the only option available

** The MicroSquirt (or MSII) will remain the only supported control system for FrankenCIS

and

A. The eWUR is for older WUR based systems
or
B. The DPR interface connects between the MicroSquirt and the EHA

, your purchase of the DPR/EHA interface from DKubus is correct for KE & KE3 Jetronic/motronic systems

Quote:
Lpg can work for the moment with his own ecu.
I can't tune it but no problem,the lpg installer could do that job.
Furthermore I've to supercharge it so, risk is to create confusion in my head considering also that english is not my language...
I hope you excuse me and I please ask you to be patient...:-)
Please forget the AEM talk

MicroSquirt is the correct and only path
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 05-27-2017, 03:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #903 (permalink)
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Thank you Steve,

Today the device is arrived at home!

Now some questions:

- Where to install engine temperature sensor? I should drill somewhere?

- Need I to put a pressure sensor on the gasoline line?

I've read the manual but I believe that I will often ask for help....
Old 05-31-2017, 02:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #904 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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for the temperature sensor there should be two on your car now
one is for the dash gauge
the other is for the motronic ecu
you can use the motronic sensor for the MicroSquirt engine temperature
it might be a two or four pin sensor, a wiring diagram for the car will help identify the correct connection

for the gasoline pressure there is no need to install a pressure sensor. FrankenCIS does not need it to operate on KE/KE3 systems.
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 05-31-2017, 03:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #905 (permalink)
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Steve, beside my thinkering about the future KE-jetronic installation on my DP935, I've got another 930 that gives me some issues and thinking of updating the K-lambda on it.

Do you think it would be feasible to use only frequency valve controlled by frankenCIS while using stock WUR?
I have in mind an install that would mostly replicate the original lambda control installation but with the power and flexibility of frankenCIS (adding the few necessary sensors).
Old 06-06-2017, 08:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #906 (permalink)
 
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3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pesch View Post
Steve, beside my thinkering about the future KE-jetronic installation on my DP935, I've got another 930 that gives me some issues and thinking of updating the K-lambda on it.

Do you think it would be feasible to use only frequency valve controlled by frankenCIS while using stock WUR?
I have in mind an install that would mostly replicate the original lambda control installation but with the power and flexibility of frankenCIS (adding the few necessary sensors).
Pretty sure this is what flightlead404 did.

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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 06-06-2017, 08:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #907 (permalink)
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Well done, thanks, found in post 647:

Digital WUR plus? ( FrankenCIS )

I all the thread but apparently missed that part...
Old 06-06-2017, 08:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #908 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pesch View Post
Do you think it would be feasible to use only frequency valve controlled by frankenCIS while using stock WUR?
Definitely feasible
With a good stock WUR, properly calibrated, there is no need to bother with the eWUR

Frequency valve control is superior to anything the WUR is doing for us.
It may be necessary to either disable or tune around the stock WUR boost enrichment though.
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-06-2017, 08:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #909 (permalink)
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Thanks!

That's perfect it happen that I have a very fresh WUR
You're right, I'm very rich when boost is building up, so I may have to control a solenoid to delay enrichment...
Old 06-06-2017, 10:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #910 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pesch View Post
Thanks!

That's perfect it happen that I have a very fresh WUR
You're right, I'm very rich when boost is building up, so I may have to control a solenoid to delay enrichment...
you don't need to resort to any rube goldberg contraptions like that.

I have the stock WUR plumbed in to the vacuum port on the TB, the MAP sensor for the MS is t'd into the same line.

The stock WUR has a boost enrichment as you know, but its not a very smooth line, its closer to a step function AFAICT.

Anyway, after you do your installation, set up the base AFR table, and set your idle mixture, your next step is to do some auto tuning. I did mine at first staying out of boost, starting with slow stuff in first and slowly building speed, and finally got into boost, again multiple runs getting progressively more aggressive.

The MS+lambda valve is handling everything just fine.
Old 06-07-2017, 08:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #911 (permalink)
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That's a good starting point thanks!

So the frequency valve can lean the mixture enough to counteract the over enrichment on boost of the WUR?

In that case, it makes a very solid fail safe system.

And thanks for the Rube Goldberg reference, now I know the translation for French "usine a gaz" (gas plant).

Last edited by Pesch; 06-07-2017 at 08:29 PM..
Old 06-07-2017, 08:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #912 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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Does spool speed matter?

Had a conversation today regarding the new BW Turbos. Was told they spool so quickly, CIS can't adjust fuel trim quickly enough to keep up. I'm assuming this is because of how CIS meters air.

What is the response speed of FrankenCIS, given it uses the same inputs (e.g. MAP) as EFI? Can FrankenCIS adjust fuel trim at a speed on par with EFI?

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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 06-11-2017, 12:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #913 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
Does spool speed matter?

Had a conversation today regarding the new BW Turbos. Was told they spool so quickly, CIS can't adjust fuel trim quickly enough to keep up. I'm assuming this is because of how CIS meters air.

What is the response speed of FrankenCIS, given it uses the same inputs (e.g. MAP) as EFI? Can FrankenCIS adjust fuel trim at a speed on par with EFI?

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How would you measure it?

I have a K27 hybrid and it seems to be fine.
Old 06-11-2017, 12:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #914 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Good question. These turbos seem to his .8 BAR boost at 2500 RPM and recover full boost on shift nearly instantaneously. They are bonkers.

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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 06-11-2017, 12:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #915 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 441
FrankenCIS control algorithm runs between 1000 and 3000 times a second (1-3 kHz)
both the eWUR and Frequency valve operate at 100 cycles per second (100 Hz) and the CIS-E DPR cycles at 30Khz

at 6000 rpm we have 100 revolutions per second (6000/60) meaning between 3 and 10 mixture adjustments per ignition event

plenty fast enough

now the real question is does the system react fast enough? and from the VE/AFR logs it seems the answer is yes
VE commanded AFR of 19.8 to AFR of 10.2 in 0.3 of a second
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-11-2017, 05:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #916 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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That's what I needed! Thanks!

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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 06-11-2017, 05:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #917 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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I'm also logging air plate movement and seeing full stroke in 0.12 of a second
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-11-2017, 05:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #918 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Curious then if analog CIS can do it or if it is just hearsay it can't.

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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 06-11-2017, 06:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #919 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Question: since the flapper valve is no longer being used to measure air flow, can the flapper valve plate be removed completely from a FrankenCIS motor (to increase flown potential)?

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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 06-22-2017, 10:13 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #920 (permalink)
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