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I don't have lambda valves or any lambdas in stock.
okay, one more question: is that a hi-z or a low-z injector?
btw, how does it feel with 100 psi feed pressure? just wondering about reliablilty of such system, particularly injector in such application? has anyone done 10k km on such device?

Last edited by puff; 10-17-2017 at 02:31 PM..
Old 10-17-2017, 01:47 PM
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"Z" signifies impedance.
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Old 10-17-2017, 02:45 PM
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i know what it signifies, and we need to know this parameter (as well as its dead time) to properly control it, don't we? Is it a common injector or that pick'n'hold type?
Old 10-17-2017, 03:50 PM
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Anything simpler than FrankenCIS will require more thought and research of course, but then it will not be as flexible as FrankenCIS.

In the FrankenCIS control system the type of injector is irrelevant

"Z" or impedance is an issue for the driver circuit, as is Peak & Hold
MicroSquirt can handle either High or Low, but cannot do peak and hold current control

The chosen injector in our system is High Z as are most modern injectors

As we are doing closed loop pressure control, and therefore self adjusting the open time, then the injector reaction or dead time is also irrelevant.

A good quality injector will open with pressures up to and exceeding around 120 PSI
The control pressure is normally between 30 and 50 which is in the range of normal EFI system pressures
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 10-17-2017, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puff View Post
I don't have lambda valves or any lambdas in stock.
okay, one more question: is that a hi-z or a low-z injector?
btw, how does it feel with 100 psi feed pressure? just wondering about reliablilty of such system, particularly injector in such application? has anyone done 10k km on such device?
The lamda valve was stock on the US cars for closed loop emissions control at idle. May not have been stock on RoW cars.

If you don't have a lambda you'll need the eWUR block, injector, damper, pressure sensor. I don't have any idea how quickly that setup will respond compared to the lambda, but the lambda valve setup adjusts in 1/10's of a second.
Old 10-19-2017, 11:03 AM
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I am thinking about PID, which will evaluate error and calculate control action once each 10ms, with PWM frequency of 100Hz, and the set point wil be reset each 200ms in the main loop (not sure at all what will it look like, not sure what was this reaction lag in the original WUR, hope, not much less than 200ms...). Will try to use Ziegler-Nichols method to tune it. Hope I'll succeed with it)
Reanimotion is probably right, the injector reaction time is irrelevant, but I am not sure, how will it react on fast PWM. I think that the period of that PWM signal should be several times bigger than the injector lag time? I could be wrong here though. Anyway, waiting for components, and need to figure out the key control parameters..

Btw, here Injectors and Fuel Supply it states literarly:
Do not run more than 70 psi fuel pressure, or the injectors may not open/close properly.

It's good that we have a tried and tested solution - nice to know that it's all feasible.
Old 10-22-2017, 05:18 PM
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need help with abbreviations
Quote:
we also might need some additional speed and resolution to control the EHA/DPR 100hz And 100 steps just isn’t fine enough control I think
we have 256 to play with so I’m thinking 50 below zero and 200 above should give us the numbers
what is EHA and what's DPR?

So far made a prototype of an android application to display pressure on a digital gaue. wanna make it build graphs for the initial 5 minutes from cold start)
Old 10-24-2017, 07:01 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #947 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puff View Post
need help with abbreviations
what is EHA and what's DPR?
EHA = Electro Hydraulic Actuator
DPR = Differential Pressure Regulator

The same thing with different names depending on the vehicle manufacturer
Used to control the fuel head in the last generation KE-Jetronic systems

Gen 1 = WUR
Gen 2 = WUR and Lambda Valve
Gen 3 = EHA/DPR
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1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 10-24-2017, 04:06 PM
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Two question:

1) Which is the rule of the original O2 sensor when you have properly installed Frankencis system on a ke jetronic?

2) what happens to the commands coming from the Ke jetronic ECU?
Is possible that it goes in 'limp mode" or something happens as, for example, retarded timing from Ezl?
Old 10-28-2017, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rital24 View Post
Two question:

1) Which is the rule of the original O2 sensor when you have properly installed Frankencis system on a ke jetronic?

2) what happens to the commands coming from the Ke jetronic ECU?
Is possible that it goes in 'limp mode" or something happens as, for example, retarded timing from Ezl?
1. the original o2 sensor is normally deleted and replaced by the wideband sensor

2. same with the original Bosch ECU, deleted and replaced by FrankenCIS

I do not know if the EZL requires information from the KE-Jetronic ECU

this link might help
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1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 10-29-2017, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
1. the original o2 sensor is normally deleted and replaced by the wideband sensor

2. same with the original Bosch ECU, deleted and replaced by FrankenCIS

I do not know if the EZL requires information from the KE-Jetronic ECU

this link might help
One additional note...it is not advised to use the stock O2 sensor location in turbo applications. The pre turbo location plays havoc with wideband sensors. One should always place a new bung after the turbo.

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Old 10-29-2017, 09:00 AM
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EZL controls the ignition timing in ke receiving signal from temperature sensor, knock sensor, manifold pressure for example and works togheter with ECU.

This could be interesting:
http://ftp.hamsk.ru/auto/W124/KE-jetronic/KE%20Design%20Control%20unit.pdf
Old 10-29-2017, 03:53 PM
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If only it were this easy.

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Last edited by sithot; 10-29-2017 at 07:52 PM..
Old 10-29-2017, 04:41 PM
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hey! I'm playing with the pressure sensor! it shows 0.446V at normal conditions (atmospheric pressure). where do I find its curve? or is it a straight line? it consumes just 1mA! amazing!

another question is where (and how) do I tap the temperature reading from? It seems that my ECT (engine coolant temperature) sensor is misbehaving: when disconnected, the voltage on its wire reads 4V, while in the connected state it reads 0V (the engine is warm, the sensor's resistance is 300Ohms). (Audi-100 with K-Jet, no lambda, no cats)
Old 10-31-2017, 03:50 PM
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I'm going to buy a new MS2 V3.0 from a seller here in Italy.
He says that for to control a VR sensor on trigger wheel he normally makes some modifications to the device otherwise it don't works good. He talked about changing some filters in the MS.
Someone turns out to be so? Could I've some problem with these modifications when Connected to the Frankencis?
Old 10-31-2017, 04:52 PM
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No one?
Old 11-04-2017, 11:11 AM
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Rital24, no idea what's your final goal. If the seller in Italy says that ms2 v3.0 requires some filter modification - okay (however, I believe it all depends upon your sensor and trigger wheel conficuration).
As for me, I am gonna use this concept for pure K-Jet replacement, without RPM-related adjustments.
Old 11-04-2017, 12:43 PM
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I would suggest that if you're not discussing the FrankenCIS, but instead some other mechanism, that a new threat would be appropriate. There's plenty of MS project threads fyi
Old 11-04-2017, 04:05 PM
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My fear is that this filters change could create some problem to the normally function of the Frankencis.
Old 11-05-2017, 04:07 AM
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FrankenCIS will not care, RPM and Timing related features are standard MSExtra/Megasquirt code

Any changes by the seller to the VR circuit will only affect the ability to sense RPM, as long as it can properly pick up a valid RPM signal FrankenCIS will be happy
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1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 11-05-2017, 05:14 AM
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