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OK, I am afraid to fry something..
What MS wire(s) should I connect to the "a - To Tachomiter" on my ignition system?


VRIN+ to it?
opt+ and then ground the opt-?

Megasquirt says something about not to do this with a certain type of CDI (negative side of coil) and I'm not sure if mine is that and this tach output goes to the coil also..

Fuel pump priming is working but I'm afraid to fry my box with this tach signal..


Also, I have the innovate MTX-L.
It doesn't have what I would think of as a "sensor ground". It just has a ground for the whole thing..

Should I ground the MTX-L to the MS shared ground?
I have it just chassis grounded right now and it's working independently..

1 more thing.. Their are 2 "shared ground" white/blk wires in my MS harness. They go to different pins..
Are they the same? Go to the same place in the MS box? Use one or the other or both?
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80 931S LSD-G31 Big Breaks FMIC
1 Bar so far
Old 06-13-2018, 11:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1041 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddie313 View Post
OK, I am afraid to fry something..
What MS wire(s) should I connect to the "a - To Tachomiter" on my ignition system?


VRIN+ to it?
opt+ and then ground the opt-?

Megasquirt says something about not to do this with a certain type of CDI (negative side of coil) and I'm not sure if mine is that and this tach output goes to the coil also..

Fuel pump priming is working but I'm afraid to fry my box with this tach signal..


Also, I have the innovate MTX-L.
It doesn't have what I would think of as a "sensor ground". It just has a ground for the whole thing..

Should I ground the MTX-L to the MS shared ground?
I have it just chassis grounded right now and it's working independently..

1 more thing.. Their are 2 "shared ground" white/blk wires in my MS harness. They go to different pins..
Are they the same? Go to the same place in the MS box? Use one or the other or both?
I believe M(1) is the coil negative on that diagram, which is also connected to a, and to pin 16 on the ignition unit.

N(a) (distributor) looks like the signal wire from a reluctor pickup, which is connected connected to O (31) on the ignition unit.

O(31d) is the shield for the reluctor.

O(31) looks like GND and

15 looks like its +12v everywhere

I'm not sure you have a choice here, I don't see a tach output from the ignition unit the way we have one on the 930's.

You could put an O scope on the output and see what it looks like first.

I connected my TD output from the CDI box to Opto+ and grounded opto-, VRs I left floating. That works for me, but the TD output is, roughly a 5v square wave iirc

Last edited by flightlead404; 06-13-2018 at 04:01 PM..
Old 06-13-2018, 03:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1042 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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the Opto circuit is for 0-12v only and will fry if connected to a CDI driven coil
the VR circuit is safe to 100v or so as the VR sensors normally generate fairly high voltages


I would try VR+ connected to pin 7 of the ignition control unit (the wire to the distributor)
that way you are sharing the signal direct from the distributor
and the signal is the correct type (VR) for both the CDI box and the MS
leave VR- disconnected

if that doesn't work for some reason then try VR+ on the tachometer(a) wire
leave VR- disconnected in this setup too

for the MTX-L chassis ground should be fine, although a shared ground would be better if you can manage it


The two shared ground wires in the MS should be connected to each other internally, use both if you can, and maybe extend one to the same chassis point you are using for the MTX-L
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-13-2018, 04:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1043 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddie313 View Post
OK, I am afraid to fry something..
What MS wire(s) should I connect
I should ask
do you have a MegaSquirt or a MicroSquirt

The VR circuit design is different between the two, and I think the the disconnected VR- trick only works on the Microsquirt
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-13-2018, 04:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1044 (permalink)
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I have the MicroSquirt..

I put the VR+ connection to pin 7 of the ignition control unit and it runs on the FP circuit..

I put my test light on it while cranking and if I start cranking right away when the FP is priming it will start and the FP power circuit stays on.

But, if I turn the acc on, pause until the FP stops priming, and then crank, it will crank all day and never put power to the FP circuit...
So I just have to flip through the key and start it..

Thank you both very much for the replies..
I should probably try hooking my laptop up now and see what it says..
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80 931S LSD-G31 Big Breaks FMIC
1 Bar so far
Old 06-13-2018, 05:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1045 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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there is a cranking speed setting in Tunerstudio that defaults to about 300 RPM

its in Startup/Idle, then Cranking/Startup settings
drop it down to 50 or 100 and that will get the fuel pump running during cranking

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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-13-2018, 06:20 PM
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With the VR+ on the pin 7 it keeps my FP relay going but gives no tach, it's just zero/dead..
With the VR+ on the coil - I get like a static RPM signal that bounces around from 10-200, does not rise with a throttle blip, fuel pump kicking in and out I think due to it falling below the 50 RPM cranking setting I put in..

Are their settings I can use to make it work? Try something else?

I have the wideband working with MS, the CLT, TPS, and the MAP all working and calibrated..
I would like to get my MAP in psi or bar rather than kpa but I haven't figured out how yet..

It took me a while to get this far. I finally figured out how to flash the firmware after trying with the tunerstudio 100 times and fighting the serial adapter I thought was causing it..

The injector dead time/pwm window was different than the frankencis manual..
I don't think it gave me any boxes to adjust the DRP like in the manual..
I did set the previous one to DPR and I think the injector dead time/pwm indicated it but didn't have the options..
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80 931S LSD-G31 Big Breaks FMIC
1 Bar so far

Last edited by fasteddie313; 06-15-2018 at 04:19 PM..
Old 06-15-2018, 04:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1047 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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pop it back on pin 7 and use the Diagnostics and High speed loggers page in tunerstudio to view what is coming in
under logger type
composite logger and tooth logger should give you some useful data

there are noise filtering options if the signals are messy, have a look at the megasquirt MSExtra manuals for detail

DPR to VE is hard set to 1:1 in the current firmware, so the setting for changing that was removed
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-15-2018, 04:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1048 (permalink)
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I took some logs and tried a bunch of stuff..
I read something about the distributor something being similar to EDIS so I tried setting it to EDIS in the drop down and it works..

It seems like I have a pretty solid tach now.. You think it will work correctly?

Let's see how far I can get from here without getting stumped again..

https://youtu.be/daPniEo3TcM
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80 931S LSD-G31 Big Breaks FMIC
1 Bar so far

Last edited by fasteddie313; 06-16-2018 at 01:48 PM..
Old 06-16-2018, 01:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1049 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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if the tach is good, and the rpm is correct then it should be ok to stay with those settings

we normally run in what they call "Basic" mode if running off the coil or if the distributor has one pulse per cylinder firing event
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-16-2018, 05:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1050 (permalink)
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Here is what my tooth log looks like..


I will see if I can find and try "basic"..


I tried tuning with my DPR polarity backwards for a while.. I thought it was strange and confirmed that my VE table was looking about the opposite of anyone elses, so I went and double checked my wiring..

My DPR and it's pigtail are both labeled 1 and 2.. Somehow the plug is labeled the opposite of the DPR box..

I do remember messing with the plugs for fitment in my car so maybe I flipped them around or something, but yeah I ran with it backwards for a while because I went by the plug labeling when I wired it... I'll get a fresh start at it the right way around tomorrow..
Nothing seems to have exploded..
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80 931S LSD-G31 Big Breaks FMIC
1 Bar so far

Last edited by fasteddie313; 07-11-2018 at 12:16 PM..
Old 06-16-2018, 09:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1051 (permalink)
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I've got the thing tuning now and it looks very promising..
Now, I'm not about to say it runs good yet, but it is on the right track..
It's nowhere near finished tuned yet, but this shows it working..
https://youtu.be/cli-u9cPOVc

Tuning with the VE table is not easy. It is very touchy and I've just been trial and erroring it, experimenting to see what it will do.
It will definitely smother the engine if fuel no problem anywhere if you tell it to, which is pretty much the point of it right?

Here is a bit about my wiring which is also not finished yet..
Under the hood I have it wired up to where it works and to where things go..
when I think it is pretty complete I'll make a nice fitting harness..
https://youtu.be/ilXkBhujAwc

I still have to put an IAT in my intake somewhere and the idle control motor..
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80 931S LSD-G31 Big Breaks FMIC
1 Bar so far
Old 06-18-2018, 11:30 PM
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Hey Steve..
Remember how I flow tested my 931 distributor at maximum and minimum differential pressure at max plate travel? I want to do that with this V8 FD..

Do you have a good method I could use to push the DPR to max and min for tests?
If I figure out how to get the MS to adjust it while the engine isn't running, can I hurt it by pushing it too far into the red zone and holding it there? Is the red zone on the gauge "you are going to fry it" red warning or just "that is an awful lot of tune correction" red warnning?Suggestions where to test it at?

I want to see if my injectors choke out at ridiculous flow, see what they do, measure the fuel/time I get, see how much I get just before my system pressure starts dropping (might need more pump), see what system pressure drop I get at max flow and see how much flow I loose because of pressure drop..
Experiment..
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80 931S LSD-G31 Big Breaks FMIC
1 Bar so far
Old 06-28-2018, 09:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1053 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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I've done a special version of the firmware without fuel cut enabled for the DPR
this should allow you to set the DPR in VE without having the engine running
just make sure you only use it for testing and swap back to 5.5.6 to run the engine
microsquirt_noDPRFuelCut.zip

The red zone is classified under "That's an awful lot of tune correction"
the system is deliberately restricted to +/- 200mA which is well within the happy range of the DPR
working range should be somewhere between -7mA and +130mA or 93 and 230 in the VE tables plus adders such as warm up and trims
255 is the maximum you can put in the VE table
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 06-28-2018, 04:25 PM
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Progress..

The bluer area is where I have it tuned in somewhat decent..

I'm still just trying to understand most of everything in the software and trying everything out still..

Does anyone have any CIS-E tuned VE maps for their cars I could look at?
I'd like to compare the natural characteristics of my system to others..
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80 931S LSD-G31 Big Breaks FMIC
1 Bar so far

Last edited by fasteddie313; 07-11-2018 at 11:56 AM..
Old 07-11-2018, 11:50 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1055 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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^^ That looks good

mine
normally aspirated V8



and the afr targets

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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 07-11-2018, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
it p...s me off that UTCIS have my unit (and my money). One or the other would be OK, but both??
I never tried the diaphragm when we were trying to solve the oscillation problem, because UTCIS were keen to solve the issue - rather than patch it up. Which is why my unit ended up going back to them. Since then I haven't been able to get any response.
Alan
I am in the same boat it has my unit and my money Iím getting ready to contact the attorney general in Arizona to get things resolved
Old 07-16-2018, 11:55 AM
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Good luck - hopefully something works for you. I don't know if they have a successful unit running now or not - they don't respond when I tried to contact them.
Regards
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 07-16-2018, 02:04 PM
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Hi everybody,
could someone gently explain this?

You could note saw teeth in afr curve at WOT in 2', 3' and 4' gear.
I have supercharger installed now at 0.4 bar max.
I can also control igntion timing with a bosch 124 module installed.
Old 09-23-2018, 07:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1059 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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weird,

My first thought was maybe Decel Fuel Cut triggered by the MAPdot, however
RPM - MAP and VE - DPR mA all seem smooth, so it doesn't appear to be a control issue

If I remember correctly over fuelling or an incomplete burn can cause a lean response from the wideband sensor as there is excess oxygen left in the exhaust, therefore it may not be truly lean at those points,

can you feel the engine lose and gain power between those jumps?
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 09-23-2018, 04:34 PM
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