Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
9dreizig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Reno NV, Bay Area during most weeks,, Kids still in NH
Posts: 5,828
Send a message via AIM to 9dreizig
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
A pressure sensor in the control pressure feed is definitely a must have - even just for logging purposes.

I'm testing a small and inexpensive digital 0-100 (7 bar) unit that seems to be available on eBay for around USD24.
A T-fitting in the line or a 1/8npt drilled and tapped into the side of one of the aftermarket injector holders for those with the bypass injector setup. The little block and banjo fitting above would be nice too.
Forgive me for not reading through the thread again !!! Just wondering how this worked.. I"ve got my MS and a few other items and just want to be sure I have all the items I'm going to need.
__________________
"Todd"
98 Tahoe ,2007 Saturn Vue
86 930 black and stock, 80 930 blue tracdog
91 Spec Miata (yeah I race a chick car)
"life"ll kill ya" Warren Zevon
Old 01-22-2019, 04:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1101 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 543
If you are using Lambda/FV control only then the pressure sensor is not needed by the system. it's only used for the eWUR control.
However, logging system and/or control pressure is still certainly useful and can be done by adding the pressure sensor to the existing lines with something like the below

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Euro View Post
Len made this fitting for me last year:
On my later KE-3 fuel head there is a 8mm test port on the lower chamber and I've also removed the cold start circuit so am using the upper central port to monitor system pressure. Both ports are M8x1 so I machined the 1/8 NPT sensor thread down to M8x1 to fit the sensors without an adapter.
The alloy Lambda head I have here has a test port on the top system pressure gallery that feeds the cold start injector but nothing dedicated on the lower chamber.
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 01-22-2019, 05:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1102 (permalink)
Old car guy.....
 
Hot Euro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 657
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
If you are using Lambda/FV control only then the pressure sensor is not needed by the system. it's only used for the eWUR control.
However, logging system and/or control pressure is still certainly useful and can be done by adding the pressure sensor to the existing lines with something like the below



On my later KE-3 fuel head there is a 8mm test port on the lower chamber and I've also removed the cold start circuit so am using the upper central port to monitor system pressure. Both ports are M8x1 so I machined the 1/8 NPT sensor thread down to M8x1 to fit the sensors without an adapter.
The alloy Lambda head I have here has a test port on the top system pressure gallery that feeds the cold start injector but nothing dedicated on the lower chamber.
Looks familiar, had Len (BoxterGT) build mine then added a gauge.
__________________
Steve
1981 SC Steel Widebody, DP Lid, 930/51 to 3.2l, K27 7006 Turbo, DOD, P&P Twin Plug heads, Twinfire Ignition, Ruf Intercooler, Powerhaus headers, Zork, CIS Euro FD, 009 injectors, 044 pump, BLwur, 930 4 sp LSD, Mocal 44 w/fan, LM2, Brembo, Retroair, Euromeisters
2003 BMW Z4 Daily Driver & Autocross car.
Old 01-23-2019, 04:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1103 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Italy
Posts: 52
Hi everybody!
Hi Steve!
Could You please explain to me this?
The DPR value in mA I see on tunerstudio gauge is what ecu asks to pressure regulator or it's the real value of the current? I hope the question is clear.
I noticed a few days ago empty spaces when I accelerate rapidly from idle, done some datalogging and I see negative peacks in dpr values, even -60 mA.
Normally I should have an increase.
Old 02-09-2019, 03:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1104 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 543
the DPR Ma shown in the gauge is the total mA value the system is commanding (request)

if you are seeing negative spikes there is something in the control values dropping the commanded fuel amount or causing the fuel cut to trigger

overspeed or overboost maybe?
how stable is your RPM signal, are you getting spikes on the RPM input during acceleration
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 02-09-2019, 08:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1105 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 1,261
Garage
Since this thread is still rocking here's few snaps of my FCIS modified rear electrical panel about ready to go back in.

As the last picture shows, I extended the "shelf" portion of the rear panel to accommodate new goodies while still leaving space for the rear wiper relay, rear window heater relay etc. I have run additional power to the panel and will be delivering it to the dedicated fuse block via a relay mounted on the square adapter in the LHS corner or the panel. Now, mounted on the rear panel I have:

-Microsquirt
-6 position ATC fuse block
-Relay adapter 911 round hole to standard modern square adapter, my own design I may start selling once I've road tested the design
-2x3Bar pressure sensors for MAP and constant baro adjustment, on a 3D printed bracket of my own design
-Boost control solenoid
-3D printed terminal strip for connectivity with ignition and sensors

Not shown is the knock sensor controller, still remains to be mounted.






__________________
'86 no-sunroof 930 coupe: Emissions removed, FrankenCIS controlling eWUR, lambda, COP ignition, and EBC. SC cams, K-27/29, Tial 0.8bar, TK Longneck intercooler, RarlyL8 headers and dual-outlet hooligan
'14 Jaguar XK-R: Bullet proof windscreen, rotating number plates (valid all European countries), martini mixer, whatever you do don't press this red button!
Old 02-10-2019, 07:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1106 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,816
^^^ Nicely done.
__________________
81 Pacific Blue 930 Euro coupe slicktop on a strict diet, Rarlyl8 headers, Blowzilla turbo, Tial waste gate, Full bay I/C, Home made center out exhaust, Leask WUR, MSD 6AL, PLX wideband
Wevo shifter, LSD. Next up, Cams, Heads and port work
Old 02-10-2019, 09:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1107 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 543
Beautifully done, with extra points for no zip ties
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 02-10-2019, 04:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1108 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 1,261
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
Beautifully done, with extra points for no zip ties
lol thanks! admittedly my lacing skills aren't what they were, but it looks ok and is solid.
__________________
'86 no-sunroof 930 coupe: Emissions removed, FrankenCIS controlling eWUR, lambda, COP ignition, and EBC. SC cams, K-27/29, Tial 0.8bar, TK Longneck intercooler, RarlyL8 headers and dual-outlet hooligan
'14 Jaguar XK-R: Bullet proof windscreen, rotating number plates (valid all European countries), martini mixer, whatever you do don't press this red button!
Old 02-11-2019, 08:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1109 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 1,261
Garage
Configuration Question for Microsquirt

I have configured for two MAP sensors so I can do real-time baro adjustment. The second baro uses SPAREADC2

I want to also have knock sensing, but AFAICT that wants SPAREADC or SPAREADC2. The control pressure sensor uses SPAREADC.

So, am I stuck choosing between real-time baro or knock sensing? I can't figure out if I can configure knock on a different input (e.g. FLEX)

I've asked on the msextra forum but no response so far...
__________________
'86 no-sunroof 930 coupe: Emissions removed, FrankenCIS controlling eWUR, lambda, COP ignition, and EBC. SC cams, K-27/29, Tial 0.8bar, TK Longneck intercooler, RarlyL8 headers and dual-outlet hooligan
'14 Jaguar XK-R: Bullet proof windscreen, rotating number plates (valid all European countries), martini mixer, whatever you do don't press this red button!
Old 02-25-2019, 07:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1110 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 543
The flex input is a digital input so won't be able to handle either the knock sensor or MAP on that channel.

If your vehicle changes altitudes frequently then a Baro input may be more important than knock for your tuning on a traditional MAP based VE tuned EFI install

The megasquirt system does, if I remember correctly, take a Baro reading from the main MAP sensor on starting the car, so an actual separate baro sensor is not really required

To add a little extra weight toward losing the baro sensor, the CIS air plate is a true Air Mass sensor, so there is a natural altitude compensation built into CIS that operates independent to the FrankenCIS control.
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 02-25-2019, 02:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1111 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 1,261
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
The flex input is a digital input so won't be able to handle either the knock sensor or MAP on that channel.

If your vehicle changes altitudes frequently then a Baro input may be more important than knock for your tuning on a traditional MAP based VE tuned EFI install

The megasquirt system does, if I remember correctly, take a Baro reading from the main MAP sensor on starting the car, so an actual separate baro sensor is not really required

To add a little extra weight toward losing the baro sensor, the CIS air plate is a true Air Mass sensor, so there is a natural altitude compensation built into CIS that operates independent to the FrankenCIS control.
Yes, the CIS system is the saving grace. I like to zoom up and down the "mountains" in N GA. Admittedly only around 4,000' altitude change but still enough to change mixture if it was a true EFI system.

Yes, MS does an initial baro reading, so if you change altitude you need to stop and restart the car. Once you do that its fine, but if your trip is up or down a mountain it could be an issue.

The knock sensor processor is actually a TTL logic level output, low is knock detected, 5v is no knock. But there doesn't seem to be a way to consume that with FLEX unfortunately.

Ah well, and I spent so much time designing and printing this lovely bracket to hold 2 MAP sensors.
__________________
'86 no-sunroof 930 coupe: Emissions removed, FrankenCIS controlling eWUR, lambda, COP ignition, and EBC. SC cams, K-27/29, Tial 0.8bar, TK Longneck intercooler, RarlyL8 headers and dual-outlet hooligan
'14 Jaguar XK-R: Bullet proof windscreen, rotating number plates (valid all European countries), martini mixer, whatever you do don't press this red button!
Old 02-25-2019, 03:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1112 (permalink)
 
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 543
as the knock output is TTL Logic 0v-5v then I think the flex input could be used to integrate it
it would require a firmware change to bring flex across to the knock system though

another option would be to use table switching for spark with flex as the input
have two spark tables - one retarded slightly for knock conditions which would come into play when knock is signalled by the knock processor
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 02-25-2019, 04:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1113 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 1,261
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
as the knock output is TTL Logic 0v-5v then I think the flex input could be used to integrate it
it would require a firmware change to bring flex across to the knock system though

another option would be to use table switching for spark with flex as the input
have two spark tables - one retarded slightly for knock conditions which would come into play when knock is signalled by the knock processor
oh fantastic idea! Simple, and would work ok for a simple fixed timing back off, I wonder if it would cause any issues banging back and forth though, if knock is detected it retards ignition say 5 degrees, eliminating the knock, processor sends the signal high again, timing advances 5 degrees, knock occurs, timing backs off and so on.

The other way (repurpose FLEX) is more elegant but I have no idea how to do that. If it's in C I can probably muddle through it, if its in assembler then I won't attempt it.

Any clue?
__________________
'86 no-sunroof 930 coupe: Emissions removed, FrankenCIS controlling eWUR, lambda, COP ignition, and EBC. SC cams, K-27/29, Tial 0.8bar, TK Longneck intercooler, RarlyL8 headers and dual-outlet hooligan
'14 Jaguar XK-R: Bullet proof windscreen, rotating number plates (valid all European countries), martini mixer, whatever you do don't press this red button!
Old 02-25-2019, 05:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1114 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 543
the twin table switching would be similar to the native knock control, just different as it wouldn't have the slow restoration of timing option, if the knock processor has delay options then it might be as good or even better as you have a map to play with instead of a single max retard and step combination

As for bringing Flex input across to knock control, it's in C and I can arrange it if you are not in a hurry
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 02-25-2019, 06:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1115 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 1,261
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
the twin table switching would be similar to the native knock control, just different as it wouldn't have the slow restoration of timing option, if the knock processor has delay options then it might be as good or even better as you have a map to play with instead of a single max retard and step combination

As for bringing Flex input across to knock control, it's in C and I can arrange it if you are not in a hurry
I'm at least a month away from starting the engine so not much hurry
__________________
'86 no-sunroof 930 coupe: Emissions removed, FrankenCIS controlling eWUR, lambda, COP ignition, and EBC. SC cams, K-27/29, Tial 0.8bar, TK Longneck intercooler, RarlyL8 headers and dual-outlet hooligan
'14 Jaguar XK-R: Bullet proof windscreen, rotating number plates (valid all European countries), martini mixer, whatever you do don't press this red button!
Old 02-25-2019, 07:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1116 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 543
ok I'll go hunting in the code over the weekend and see what can be done
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 02-25-2019, 07:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1117 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 543
** Note to all **
5.5.6k remains the preferred version unless you specifically require digital on/off knock control over the flex fuel input


I had a few moments today in between phone calls with clients
modified source and compiled firmware 5.5.8k is up but untested on actual hardware yet
feel free to test functionality if you have time before I get to testing on the weekend
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) "Be the man your dog thinks you are."
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 02-25-2019, 11:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1118 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 1,261
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
ok I'll go hunting in the code over the weekend and see what can be done
lmk if I can help. If you need coding help, my lang of choice is Bash lol
__________________
'86 no-sunroof 930 coupe: Emissions removed, FrankenCIS controlling eWUR, lambda, COP ignition, and EBC. SC cams, K-27/29, Tial 0.8bar, TK Longneck intercooler, RarlyL8 headers and dual-outlet hooligan
'14 Jaguar XK-R: Bullet proof windscreen, rotating number plates (valid all European countries), martini mixer, whatever you do don't press this red button!
Old 02-27-2019, 07:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1119 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 1,261
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
** Note to all **
5.5.6k remains the preferred version unless you specifically require digital on/off knock control over the flex fuel input


I had a few moments today in between phone calls with clients
modified source and compiled firmware 5.5.8k is up but untested on actual hardware yet
feel free to test functionality if you have time before I get to testing on the weekend
I'll download and fiddle with it in the next few days.
__________________
'86 no-sunroof 930 coupe: Emissions removed, FrankenCIS controlling eWUR, lambda, COP ignition, and EBC. SC cams, K-27/29, Tial 0.8bar, TK Longneck intercooler, RarlyL8 headers and dual-outlet hooligan
'14 Jaguar XK-R: Bullet proof windscreen, rotating number plates (valid all European countries), martini mixer, whatever you do don't press this red button!

Last edited by flightlead404; 02-27-2019 at 07:18 AM..
Old 02-27-2019, 07:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1120 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:44 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.