Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
moparrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 853
Hey Steve, I was wondering what ever became of your proposal for a drop in engine position sensor for Bosch distributors. What model(s) of distributor were you developing them for? Did you ever complete any prototypes?

What reluctors, tooth count/type and sensors did you end up using:




I would love to see a full sequential EFI setup become available for a reasonable price, using such a product.

Thanks for any info you may have.

Old 02-19-2020, 03:07 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1261 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 558
It never got off the ground as there was no interest and Kenikh listed a currently available alternative.

The prototype worked well, but there are simpler and more reliable options out there
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic
"Be the man your dog thinks you are."

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 02-19-2020, 09:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1262 (permalink)
Registered User
 
moparrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 853
Steve, I reviewed the thread in its entirety, and also reviewed Kenikh's postings on other issues, and could not find any reference to any currently available alternatives.

Would you happen to have a reference to a specific posting or any other information on what he was referring to? Much appreciated.
Old 02-20-2020, 08:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1263 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 558
sorry, bad memory
it was a message not a post here

Rasant Products did an adapter for the 911 distributor to use the AEM Engine Position Module
https://rasantproducts.com/engine-management-components/engine-position-sensors/
it might be worth shooting them an email

detailed install in another thread here
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/932541-triumph-itb-aem-infinity-project.html#post9321745
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic
"Be the man your dog thinks you are."

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 02-20-2020, 04:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1264 (permalink)
Registered User
 
moparrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 853
Thanks, I will check it out. Was also wondering what happened to the Accel and Mallory dual sync distributors they had made for the 911 at one time.
Old 02-20-2020, 09:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1265 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
I can now happily report FrankenCIS now seems to work on all versions of CIS. The CIS-E (no WUR!) fuel head upgrade on the 928 is operational and functional tests have shown good control of AFR so far

So we have :-

K-Jetronic basic - controls an electronic WUR block by targeting a control pressure map referencing Time/Temperature. The standard style EFI Load and RPM referenced fuel demand map is them mixed in on top to provide an enhanced version of the manifold pressure adjustment available in the standard mechanical WUR.
AFR tables can also be mixed in to add multi dimension closed loop operation with a wideband sensor

K-Jetronic Lambda - as above with the addition of a second map table controlling the Frequency Valve or equivalent. in this mode we also split the additional EFI style tuning features between the WUR and FV where appropriate.

KE-Jetronic - completely different to the first two, No WUR, No Frequency Valve, static control pressure and complete control of the differential pressure between the top and bottom chambers of the Fuel Distributor. This means a wide range of fuel mixtures can be mapped without altering the position of the air plate (as happens with CIS basic) so the possibility of maxing out the air plate travel is essentially eliminated as the control piston always sees full system pressure. Be aware there are two versions of KE or CIS-E. The earlier VW/Audi units run similar system pressure to the original CIS. Sytem pressure around 70+ PSI and a grey DPR appear to be the identifiers.

KE3-Jetronic and KE-Motronic as above for KE but operate at 90+ PSI meaning a potential for greater fuel delivery and AFR authority. The Mercedes units we are testing so far all appear to be KE3 or KE-Motronic. Apparently a black DPR valve is the visual identifier. The black and grey DPRs are interchangeable if adjusted as I have done with my hybrid install.


I'm also told we should have the next batch of Type II FrankenCIS blocks early next week.
Long shot here, not trying to thread-jack, but I'm working with stock KE-Jetronic on a Volkswagen CIS-E system. I bought a new DPR and turns out I got the black one where my original was gray. What is the adjustment procedure for making it work?

Last edited by Scirocco16; 02-22-2020 at 08:12 PM..
Old 02-22-2020, 08:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1266 (permalink)
 
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 558
physical adjustment procedure with pics
www.frankencis.com/portals/2/frankencis/DPR_mod.pdf

VW manual (DPR setting begins on P32)
www.frankencis.com/portals/2/frankencis/WSP-521-124-00.pdf
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic
"Be the man your dog thinks you are."

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 02-22-2020, 08:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1267 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
physical adjustment procedure with pics
www.frankencis.com/portals/2/frankencis/DPR_mod.pdf

VW manual (DPR setting begins on P32)
www.frankencis.com/portals/2/frankencis/WSP-521-124-00.pdf
Thanks a million!
Old 02-22-2020, 08:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1268 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Italy
Posts: 54
Hi everybody!
I'm going on with tuning on my Mercedes, many works done in these months:
Engine rebuilt with new forged pistons and 722.5 trans also rebuilt.
In these (pandemic) days I'm involved in Acceleration enrichment setup.
As You can see in the picture, sometimes the DPR ma value goes down when it shold goes up especially during fast movements of throttle.
My setup is 100% MAP based (don't have TPS) and tried with several curves.
Any suggestion?








Sometimes works well:



Or this sawtooth


Old 03-29-2020, 07:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1269 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 1,343
Garage
My next step is to install a proper TPS. For me, I'm planning on doing it to be able to do EBC.

However, you might be able to use it to control tip-in. Perhaps add a little extra fuel?
__________________
'86 no-sunroof 930 coupe: Emissions removed, FrankenCIS controlling eWUR, lambda, COP ignition, and EBC. SC cams, K-27/29, Tial 0.8bar, TK Longneck intercooler, RarlyL8 headers and dual-outlet hooligan
'14 Jaguar XK-R: Bullet proof windscreen, rotating number plates (valid all European countries), martini mixer, whatever you do don't press this red button!
Old 03-29-2020, 09:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1270 (permalink)
Registered User
 
fasteddie313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 69
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rital24 View Post
As You can see in the picture, sometimes the DPR ma value goes down when it shold goes up especially during fast movements of throttle.

I had absolutely the same problem...
Read my posts about it starting here... 924Board.org :: View topic - Stage Next...

And you can see the effects on the logs posted there..


Accel enrichment completely screwed me up for some reason giving me lean spikes after throttle stab instead of rich spikes.. Maybe something is backwards in the firmware for it or something??

IDK.. Either way I was able to completely fix it by simply turning accel enrichment completely off!!


Fired my car up this spring and it runs exactly the same as it did when I parked it last fall..
All good.. Actually all great!
Rips!!

But I haven't messed with it much yet this year because I have been focused on my M3 which I just got back together after a catastrophic failure last year, so my attention has been mostly on the M3 and not the 931 so far unfortunately..

Night and day difference..
The M3 just pulls so so smooth and feels so refined, but the 931 just feels so much faster and more exciting..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
My 928 and FastEddie's 924 turbo are customised upgrades using Mercedes parts and the DPR system, I believe we are the only two crazy enough to do this so far.
Crazy for sure but darn if it doesn't work so sweet!
It WORKS!

I'm absolutely comfortable and confident in my setup up to 1 bar of boost but over that I think I'm getting a boost leak somewhere, going too rich, so I intend to replace all my clamps with real T-bolts and stuff, maybe my BOV leaks, IDK, but I'm sure I'll get the bug to get back to experimenting with the 931 some time this summer..
I really want to hit that 20PSI mark on some nice cleanly tuned logs..

Maybe I am blowing out my spark? Would that show a over rich condition after boost exceeds a certain point?
Hmmm..
Maybe I should try some new plugs with a really small gap..
__________________
80 931S LSD-G31 Big Breaks FMIC
1 Bar so far
Old 05-03-2020, 09:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1271 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Glorious Pac NW
Posts: 3,497
Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddie313 View Post
Maybe I am blowing out my spark? Would that show a over rich condition after boost exceeds a certain point?
Try the smaller gap by all means, but I'm a little doubtful. I'd think if you were blowing out the spark, there'd be lots of unburnt fuel. That wouldn't read rich, in my experience.

After a certain point, too rich reads higher lambda values on a wideband, and the more you try to "fatten it up", the leaner it reads. This tells you you're going the wrong way...

It's a little counter-intuitive; but the sensor is actually measuring oxygen content; incomplete combustion equals unburnt fuel and more air passing through unchanged - thus higher oxygen content. Oh, and this will shorten the life of the sensor too, from fuel contamination.
__________________
'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 05-03-2020, 09:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1272 (permalink)
Registered User
 
fasteddie313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 69
Garage
I think you are right..

All evidence points to a boost leak.. Once it gets over like 2.1-2.15 kpa it falls into the 9s on AFR and pulling VE out of the map doesn't help..
This makes the power just fall off a cliff.. It doesn't miss or stutter or anything, but the power just goes flat like it bogs..

That's what I get for my entire FMIC setup being made out of junkyard schoolbus coolant systems and Ford truck intakes with just worm clamps..
But hey, it has gotten me this far!

Prolly should quit being so cheap and lazy and just upgrade to T-bolt clamps already ya think?

__________________
80 931S LSD-G31 Big Breaks FMIC
1 Bar so far
Old 05-04-2020, 03:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1273 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:59 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.