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Kozmo930's Avatar
 
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Need Help quick !

Now that almost all electrical problems are solved ... All new professorially rebuilt fuel system on car (CIS) It seems I need some kind of base line to get this POS running . Thought I had a fuel leak turned out to be a exh leak ... to much fuel in exh pipes laying in bottom .

Don't get me wrong was trying to sort out electrical fuel system problem and may have just flooded engine . But now some time has gone by and I have a "want to start but can't just get there "engine ...everything is new so I'm reaching out to fellow Pelicans so I can get this POS running to "TurboPlooozaaa"

Symptoms ;
wants to catch but just won't .....

Thanks in advance
Kozmo
Old 07-12-2014, 10:23 PM
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Is your timing out by 180?
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:35 AM
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Kozmo i have never tried it but this is suggested to try and get your car started.

Trouble cold starting
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:48 AM
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Kozmo,
Check the overboost switch on the BOV. There is a one spade connection there that could be preventing your car from starting.
See the second to last picture in posting #10 of the stickied Common answers to why "My car doesn't start or it's running poorly...."
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Old 07-13-2014, 08:14 AM
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OK I'm think your talking about this switch... after testing yes found this switch bad , but by grounding the white wire (until I can get new switch) the pumps will work and safety measures are working . Short run when you turn on key and shut off until plate is moved then pumps run again . Now as far as getting fuel ... cross over exh pipe was leaking fuel puddled in bottom . I guess will have to remove injector and run test on it to see how much fuel I'm getting through lines . Then as far as "180 out" again I think I will pull number 1 spark plug and check rotor while turning motor over to see .

Cross my fingers ...Thanks in advance Kozmo
Old 07-13-2014, 05:22 PM
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Short comment. The fuel in exhaust sounds familiar. Make sure the metering valve in the fuel head is not stuck (open) from sitting (even though freshly rebuild). Mine did that in my old no-start thread, severely flooded the engine.
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:32 PM
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Been wondering if was from testing all electronics getting safety features back on car (Moving the CIS arm) checking pump operation . PO disabled everything and bypassed all circuits to make car run... NOT GOOD ! in anyone realm of thinking ,fire is not good . But as you find one thing wrong you move to the next problem

Kozmo
Old 07-13-2014, 05:38 PM
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Unless you've ruled it out - and you don't mention having done so - you should make certain and address the question posed by unclebilly in post no. 2. If you have ruled it out you should probably check it one more time.


This statement in particular ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kozmo930 View Post
wants to catch but just won't .....
... reeks of your distributor shaft being 180 out.
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Is your timing out by 180?
+1 here.
Old 07-13-2014, 08:19 PM
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Just another bit of information to add to what Kozmo has posted already. I've been working with him to get the electrical sorted.

Car was running albeit poorly, a week or so ago. It would idle but as soon as any additional fuel was added it would die. Since then a number of electrical problems have been sorted to have the fuel pumps running properly. (A number of poor PO mods and even some shorted wiring and burnt relays have been repaired)

Again, car would idle, but any additional fuel would cause it to stumble and die.
Now after all the tinkering the engine is very much flooded, I suggested pulling plugs, disabling fuel pump and spinning engine to expel fuel and try again once dried out.

Mixture set really, really rich? Needs to check f the WUR fuel pressures are correct? (Cold, warm and running)
I provided baseline initial settings for the fuel delivery setup for the NA CIS, any differences for the turbo?
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Last edited by timmy2; 07-13-2014 at 10:47 PM..
Old 07-13-2014, 10:40 PM
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How about pulling the FP relays and use starter fluid to see if it will fire at all. That should tell if fuel related. If that works, and fuel is the problem, I'd personally go "redneck" trouble shooting by removing the air filter leaving access to the metering plate. While cranking trying to lift up, gently, on the plate. It shouldn't take much to lean it out sufficiently to make it fire up if it was close earlier. This is assuming control pressure gauges are not at hand.
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:59 PM
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No Gauges at the moment.
He should probably check the fuel distributor plunger you suggested earlier.
Playing with the metering plate is a simple way to check for lean or rich.

I was going to suggest he dial the richness adjustment down 2 or more full turns with pumps running so fuel shuts off at the pulled injector and then just open it until it begins to dribble, then give it a 1/2 turn more and start to manually adjust from there. (as per NA CIS baseline adjustments)
Any thoughts?
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Last edited by timmy2; 07-13-2014 at 11:22 PM..
Old 07-13-2014, 11:20 PM
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A couple of good reads here:

CIS Idle Speed and Mixture Setting Without an Analyzer

CIS Troubleshooting for Dummies

Single post on CIS baseline:

CIS Troubleshooting for Dummies
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:25 PM
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Have a fire extinguisher handy.
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclebilly View Post
Have a fire extinguisher handy.
very much ready !

Kozmo
Old 07-14-2014, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy2 View Post
Ok guys now that I have looked at these a few questions come to mind:...
1) How does screw at throttle body work with the 3mm allen on the CIS air plate ?
2)How does the 3mm allen affect the open air plate as far as metering lets say half throttle ?

Kozmo
Old 07-14-2014, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy2 View Post
Just another bit of information to add to what Kozmo has posted already. I've been working with him to get the electrical sorted.

Car was running albeit poorly, a week or so ago. It would idle but as soon as any additional fuel was added it would die. Since then a number of electrical problems have been sorted to have the fuel pumps running properly. (A number of poor PO mods and even some shorted wiring and burnt relays have been repaired)

Again, car would idle, but any additional fuel would cause it to stumble and die.
Now after all the tinkering the engine is very much flooded, I suggested pulling plugs, disabling fuel pump and spinning engine to expel fuel and try again once dried out.

Mixture set really, really rich? Needs to check f the WUR fuel pressures are correct? (Cold, warm and running)
I provided baseline initial settings for the fuel delivery setup for the NA CIS, any differences for the turbo?
To add to this
"when it idled" when metering plate was not touched , as soon as you touched plate fuel pumps would shut off , due to the wiring issue . Engine would stop running , that's when we found the over boost relay shorted out inside .

Now could this still lead us back to the 3mm allan screw adjustment ?

Kozmo

Kozmo
Old 07-14-2014, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kozmo930 View Post
Ok guys now that I have looked at these a few questions come to mind:...
1) How does screw at throttle body work with the 3mm allen on the CIS air plate ?
2)How does the 3mm allen affect the open air plate as far as metering lets say half throttle ?

Kozmo
I am not sure what you are asking in 1)

2) I'd say, it does not have any effect at half throttle or anything where the airflow affects fuel flow by "pushing" on the metering plate.
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:36 PM
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quick update ;
Timing is correct
3mm allan is a fuel metering adjustment ? not idle control ?
Fuel is not dripping when checking air metering plate... Have to push at least 1/4 inch or more to get fuel out of injector... trying to get base line so I'm thinking to get just a few dribbles on movement ... or is it suppose to drip on key turn ?

Kozmo
Old 07-14-2014, 06:14 PM
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3mm is not your idle control, however, it does control the CO (fuel mixture) at idle. I wouldn't mess with it, if you haven't been working and adjusting on it.

I would try to remove the IC and spray just a little starter fluid into the TB, crack it open and crank the engine. It should fire up immediately, and obviously die right after. This would confirm that this is a fuel issue.
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Carrera 3.0 1975
930 1978 OEM Matte Schwartz, ANDIAL IC, BL WUR, SC cams. LMA-3 w. XD-16 and CP transducer
www.stauningwhisky.dk
Old 07-14-2014, 06:53 PM
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