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infraredcalvin's Avatar
 
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I wasn't aware you could get overspray from a brush.... Nice color.. Grabber Blue? Flame suit on...
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Infraredcalvin - AKA Pat
'76 Turbo Carrera #311 - Factory LSD, Sport Seats
'75 914 GT clone project
'74 914 track basket-case
Old 07-25-2014, 11:20 AM
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They make paint that glows in the dark.. it can be brushed or rolled on.
Old 07-25-2014, 11:55 AM
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Are you painting your car BEFORE the roof install?
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Turbo powa!
1977 911s. it's cool
Old 07-25-2014, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930 View Post
I'm confident that is some Robby humor right thar! Regardless, the bulk of the paint is undoubtedly going straight up his nose!!!
HAhaha Actually some truth there,

When painting (Ventilate the room) it is important
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Last row 1977 3.0 930 260hp built, still reassembling
Row 1998 996 MK1 3.4 296hp new daily driver
Old 07-25-2014, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infraredcalvin View Post
I wasn't aware you could get overspray from a brush.... Nice color.. Grabber Blue? Flame suit on...

Ahh you got me there must do better pic next time
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Last row 1977 3.0 930 260hp built, still reassembling
Row 1998 996 MK1 3.4 296hp new daily driver
Old 07-25-2014, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattrorunner View Post
Are you painting your car BEFORE the roof install?
No just practicing actually,
Ive picked a section of car the right rear as you see and working out how to paint etc, This is currently my fourth repaint in that area , also experimenting with rubbing compounds and different types of wet and dry, as its all new to me as you know, but satisfaction level is high because this last attempt it all came together and paint looks like glass, not bad if I say so myself..

Colour I dunno.. I sort of have been tihngking of not cutting back final coat or clearcoating it because it has a cool look in MAtt.. for another thread anyway e'll see

Oh
Only When roof is on that's when ill be attempting to paint whole car, its ALL to be completed before I die or ill be most upset .
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Last row 1977 3.0 930 260hp built, still reassembling
Row 1998 996 MK1 3.4 296hp new daily driver
Old 07-25-2014, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
You are paintbrushing your car??
Joking about the brushes
But when I first started practicing I did use a brush lol.. I thought I could do it a fume free way.. obviously that did not work lol
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Last row 1977 3.0 930 260hp built, still reassembling
Row 1998 996 MK1 3.4 296hp new daily driver
Old 07-25-2014, 04:59 PM
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What'd you use? Car model paint? Did it just rub off?
Old 07-25-2014, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbbyg View Post
Hi , No I odnt have any of those symptoims, only symptom is an oil stain around near where theright side exhaust manifold connects,

Today ill take a spring our and go back to .8 bar to be safe,
Robby,
Do you have the stock cylinders on your engine? I'm using the C2 Turbo cylinders on mine and they have the issue Porsche noted some time ago with what Porsche described as "weeping" between the cylinders and heads. Weeping was described as visible oil moistness on cylinder/head but not leaving spots when parked. Lucky me, I'm the benefactor of Porsche's poor execution. Dropping the engine this Winter for a reseal.


Chris (TurboKraft),
Isn't possible to get some oil seeping past the rings when the vehicle has been sitting for a while? It was my understanding that piston rings do rotate somewhat in their respective lands during operation. Didn't the 993 engines take care of that by putting a tab in each of the lands to prevent ring rotation and ring gap alignment?
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P

Last edited by WERK I; 07-26-2014 at 05:59 AM..
Old 07-26-2014, 05:57 AM
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Ring rotation

Dear Dave,

No - piston rings do not rotate in any way !

They need a very specific position each.

You choose their location and after 300.000 km you find them still there.

Best reg.

Dirk

https://www.facebook.com/edelweissmotorsport
Old 07-26-2014, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edelweiss View Post
Dear Dave,

No - piston rings do not rotate in any way !

They need a very specific position each.

You choose their location and after 300.000 km you find them still there.

Best reg.

Dirk

https://www.facebook.com/edelweissmotorsport
Sorry Ed but that is incorrect - the rings move all over the place and the ring gaps tend to line up with one another regardless of where you positioned them to begin with.

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 07-26-2014 at 12:56 PM..
Old 07-26-2014, 12:53 PM
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I've heard the rings gaps "migrate" too. I'm not a pro engine builder, I've only built some of my own engines starting with horizonatal shaft Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engines for mini bikes when I was a kid and then BMW 2002 and 635 motors 25 - 35 years ago.
A few months ago I rebuilt the top end of my 930 motor and I have a PDF copy of the factory workshop manual you can download online.

Here's a jpeg of the page from it showing the correct position of the ring gaps for a 911 motor. I installed my new Mahle pistons and cylinders with the ring gaps positioned like this and when I took the pistons out that were installed by a Porsche shop around 35,000 miles ago I was surprised they were pretty much in these same positions.

Top compression ring gap: 4 o-clock, second compression ring gap: 10 o-clock and the oil ring gap at: 2 o-clock.
Anyway, it's working good like this

Old 07-26-2014, 03:47 PM
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Hi Jim, I'm not a pro engine builder either, but have built a few, and competed in motorcycle roadracing for ten years (lots of engine experience for me then, as I could no way afford to pay others for the high maintenance work involved in that sport) so got to be friends with many pro builders who's generous help I came to rely on. Positioning ring gaps is one of the things that pro builders joke about - they do it like your pic above shows because it makes obvious sense, but they all laugh about "why bother" because the rings, primarily the compression rings, often self-align at the gaps in short order. I can't state the exact physics of this self-alignment, but it has something to do with the compression pressure escaping past the tiny gaps in similar fashion. Now, you do not see this 100% of the time when a top end is disassembled, but 100% of the time the ring gaps will have moved to a completely different spot from where they were set. Of course, it couldn't be any other way since the rings are not in any way "locked" into position.

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 07-26-2014 at 04:37 PM..
Old 07-26-2014, 04:34 PM
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Ring rotation

Dear Sirs,

doing min. one engine a week here is first hand information:

For sure it is so right as essential to be very correct and exact about the mounting position of the piston rings.

Why bother is a shocking statement to my ears.

And yes it is right - depending on the ring and cylinder material the rings are moving a little - some few degrees - during the break in process.

The physics behind this phenomena is simple - the rings are building sort of a labyrinth seal and the gases are traveling through it causing lateral forces to the rings ends in the gap zone.

This is without any effect as the rings are " broken in " to the cylinder surface, from that moment on the rings are not changing position any more and stay where they are for the engines lifespan.

We service our race engines on a yearly basis and when the cylinders come off I see the piston rings, more or less, exactly where they where positioned during the mounting process.

At some application we use gap less rings from total seal with good result - using this top rings is minimising the ring rotation against zero.

There is I a logic inside all this - the braking in means the rings found their position to the cylinder and the sealing effect against gas pressure from head side and oil from the crank side gets to its maximum. If they where not stop moving they would never break in, never seal and as an effect would wear out quick.

We produce our own nikasil plated cylinders in our own casting and we are using Mahle 124 to produce our pistons ( not even Mahle is using this high end material any more by the way ) so we deliver this parts to all top european engine builders and have to answer questions around this all day.

When braking in - use special break in oil or simple mineralic 10/40, never start a new engine using synth. oil with high viscosity.

If it is not a race engine and you have the time go for it approx 5000 km before you change for the premium synthetic juice.

We use nothing but Motul 20W60 then - this is by far the best for air cooled engines from our daily experience.

Best reg.

Dirk

https://www.facebook.com/edelweissmotorsport
Old 07-27-2014, 02:40 AM
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Dirk,
Thank you, kind sir, for your input. This got a little off topic, and I apologize for taking this off the beaten path....

1.) Head to cylinder oil seepage. What are the causes then? Certainly with a boxer type engine, oil can find its way towards the heads during shutdown, yes?

2.) If ring rotation isn't the issue, why did Porsche choose to put tabs in each of ring lands of their 993 engine pistons?
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 07-27-2014, 05:07 AM
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[QUOTE=WERK I;8182961]Robby,
Do you have the stock cylinders on your engine? I'm using the C2 Turbo cylinders on mine and they have the issue Porsche noted some time ago with what Porsche described as "weeping" between the cylinders and heads. Weeping was described as visible oil moistness on cylinder/head but not leaving spots when parked. Lucky me, I'm the benefactor of Porsche's poor execution. Dropping the engine this Winter for a reseal.



I have absolutely no idea whats inside my engine,
Engine wise I have no receipts to say there has been anything done to it besdes a turbo replacement, lightened flywheel and heavy duty clutch that's all I have on it im afraid.
Engine is matching so its a 260hp 3.0 at the minimum is all I can tell you.,

She has a wetness it doesn't drip, it looks like a wet patch (excuse the French) lol
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Row 1998 996 MK1 3.4 296hp new daily driver
Old 07-27-2014, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timspu View Post
When i first bought my car i had a funny banginig noise when on boost only sounded like the wastegate banging. It tuned out to be lifting heads due to a broken head stud.
i still have an oil weep around the head but believe its from the rocker cover.

Do you have a banging noise when on boost? Gas leaking from the lifting head or just the ehad chattering on to the barrel.
Mine went on for about 6 months before i had the top end rebuild.

Hopefully you only have a slight oil weep,

Tim
Nope no banging noise , only prob is when im peaking the acceleration dies at 'the top end of the rev range, it makes me sad she runs out of steam, im thinking vscuum leak ive yet to find, but ill find it one day as every nut is coming off sooner or later
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Last row 1977 3.0 930 260hp built, still reassembling
Row 1998 996 MK1 3.4 296hp new daily driver
Old 07-27-2014, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
They make paint that glows in the dark.. it can be brushed or rolled on.

The Paint is Acrylic Enamel Marine Blue mixed with other colors that im trying to im also thinking black, orange, dark red and purple stripes so who knows

Also in answer to Tippy its not hobby paint its Anti Rust Metal Paint and its a good price, $40 for four litres if I follow directions which I am it comes with 5 year guarantee against rust, so that's cool ill repaint and notarise every five years, will keep it looking fresh too

So ive got plenty of room to paractice before going all in with it,
I also got a litre of Clear if I go all the way


All came w feom the same two colours, just changing mix andn also I did something different for the last which is going to be for underbody but final will be much darker, goodnight peoples its late and I cant see a thing !
same paint color car day ,

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Last row 1977 3.0 930 260hp built, still reassembling
Row 1998 996 MK1 3.4 296hp new daily driver
Old 07-27-2014, 07:13 AM
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