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T77911S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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30k. if not i would look for another one.

i spent a year looking for mine and perhaps longer researching prices. when the right one comes along, you will know it.

i spent a year looking for a truck for my daughter. found a 99 F250. fair price, 167k miles and not ragged out. she loves it.

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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #41 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woywitka View Post
Which brings me to, how really , and I do believe you guys, does $15K evaporate? TO be fair, during my stewardship, my SC has never been to a mechanic, valve adjustments, brakes, a couple electrical things and so on I have been able to figure out. I'm sure if I dropped the SC off twice a year we could be at $5-7K in running costs. I once disassembled the entire nose, prepped and had my bumper and valence professionally resprayed, found a good used bumper smile, polished the turn signal lenses, put it all back together, looks new for $300 all in.

I'm thrifty.
You sound like me - can do it all and are very picky about the things you don't do. My 930 was in worse shape than yours and I paid $33K, knowing it needed paint, an interior and possibly a full engine and transmission rebuild. My comfort level with the price I reached was based directly upon the work that I knew I was willing to do myself, as well as the bits on the car I didn't want and could sell.

I had planned from the start to do all of the body work and paint myself. I had also planned on not doing any motor work (if needed) and farming it out.

Thus, the equation ended up being:
- $33K (acquisition cost)
+ $5K (take off parts sold)
- $1K (paint supplies)
- $1K (interior bits)
- $13K (motor rebuild, parts and labor)
Net $43K out of pocket for a PERFECT 930 in a very rare and desirable color.

Considering the retail cost of a paint job of the quality of which I'll put on the car is between $25K - $30K in the Seattle market, you can quickly see where costs can get away from you.
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 10-07-2014, 11:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #42 (permalink)
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Ok, so I test drove it today. Had a PPI done. in all, not good.

First the drive, the car stumbles and is bucking (cold engine), so I say we should go get fresh gas.

Then we go and get a PPI, $250. They are going to e-mail me the summary tomorrow, that's how long it will take them to calculate the work. They told me it needs a full reseal, split the case, basically a "while you're in there" scenario. They said the engine sounds great and the transmission is awesome, but that it leaks from everywhere. Places they have never seen a car leak from.

($20K?)

Then there's the the front rotors, those are badly warped.

The car can't boost correctly, it pings under load past .08bar.

After some driving and the car warmed up it did run better. CIS HATES SITTING, such a shame. All you guys out there with low mileage garage queens, for the love of motoring, drive your cars, often, and drive them HARD!

Tires have flat spots, that sucked.

A crappy test drive. It also made my SC feel like a millions bucks.

That being said, it's a 930....

Strong points on the PPI were: Car is original and everything else is in fantastic condition, they could not believe how clean it was underneath, one of the best examples they have seen. The car is very original (rare). There are no accidents (also rare). The suspension and everything is great.

The clutch pedal does not fully return, they think the clutch needs work, it feels better than my SC clutch, does not slip, chatter, and it is like a switch - feather light. Don't know what to say about that.

It was obvious the owner of the garage wanted to buy the car, he said he would buy it off me If I ever did not want it. Said the car is very rare given that it's not a ROW but a real Canadian spec Vancouver delivered car. Great colour combo, sport seats etc. That being said they still seemed respectful of my deal.

They even offered to buy my 260km SC for $12k + a full service (maybe) to get the 930 driving.

hmmm...
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1978 911 SC Targa
1975 914 1.8
1980 Mercedes 300 SD

Last edited by woywitka; 10-07-2014 at 07:07 PM..
Old 10-07-2014, 06:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
You sound like me - can do it all and are very picky about the things you don't do. My 930 was in worse shape than yours and I paid $33K, knowing it needed paint, an interior and possibly a full engine and transmission rebuild. My comfort level with the price I reached was based directly upon the work that I knew I was willing to do myself, as well as the bits on the car I didn't want and could sell.

I had planned from the start to do all of the body work and paint myself. I had also planned on not doing any motor work (if needed) and farming it out.

Thus, the equation ended up being:
- $33K (acquisition cost)
+ $5K (take off parts sold)
- $1K (paint supplies)
- $1K (interior bits)
- $13K (motor rebuild, parts and labor)
Net $43K out of pocket for a PERFECT 930 in a very rare and desirable color.

Considering the retail cost of a paint job of the quality of which I'll put on the car is between $25K - $30K in the Seattle market, you can quickly see where costs can get away from you.

How did you pull of $13K for the rebuild? Everyone on here said $20K, $25K, heck some say $4million dollars, or perhaps that's what their mechanic charged them.
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1978 911 SC Targa
1975 914 1.8
1980 Mercedes 300 SD
Old 10-07-2014, 07:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T77911S View Post
30k. if not i would look for another one.

i spent a year looking for mine and perhaps longer researching prices. when the right one comes along, you will know it.

i spent a year looking for a truck for my daughter. found a 99 F250. fair price, 167k miles and not ragged out. she loves it.

Again, up here in Canada there is not $30K 930. A US 930 is an unknown quantity thanks to many states with poor record keeping AND the duty, taxes and import charges. Canadian spec cars carry a lot of weight up here because of the security they provide.
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1978 911 SC Targa
1975 914 1.8
1980 Mercedes 300 SD
Old 10-07-2014, 07:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #45 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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$12K is low. A dialed in SC is $25K minimum in Seattle, just a short drive down the 99/5.

Last "reseal" I had done was on my '66 and was a true reseal: Same bearings, rings, etc. Cost $2500 USD and that was the best case scenario. On a 930, I'd crack test every piston, which is extra, but worth it. My car had FIVE cracked pistons skirts. Still, if you get away with a reseal and some other cursory fixes, it is a coup.
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 10-07-2014, 07:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #46 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
$12K is low. A dialed in SC is $25K minimum in Seattle, just a short drive down the 99/5.

Last "reseal" I had done was on my '66 and was a true reseal: Same bearings, rings, etc. Cost $2500 USD and that was the best case scenario. On a 930, I'd crack test every piston, which is extra, but worth it. My car had FIVE cracked pistons skirts. Still, if you get away with a reseal and some other cursory fixes, it is a coup.
huh!

Pardon my Queen's English lol, what does "coup" mean?
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1978 911 SC Targa
1975 914 1.8
1980 Mercedes 300 SD
Old 10-07-2014, 07:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #47 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woywitka View Post
How did you pull of $13K for the rebuild? Everyone on here said $20K, $25K, heck some say $4million dollars, or perhaps that's what their mechanic charged them.
I shop around and source most of my own parts. Considering I had to do EVERYTHING, including fresh seats in the heads, plus optional bits like porting, there's proof you can watch costs and still do it right.

I'll check my spreadsheet again...I think it was actually cheaper than $13k, as my top line figure also included tires, and other ancillary, non motor related bits.

Again, find a good mechanic that is willing to work WITH you, do your own project management, source some of your own parts, pick a plan and don't change direction 20 times and you can do this affordably.
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 10-07-2014, 07:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #48 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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A coup is proper Queen's English: "Wellington's victory at Waterloo was a coup for British influence with the continental monarchies."
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 10-07-2014, 07:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #49 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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To answer another question, here's the latest on my car

Still a ways to go.
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 10-07-2014, 07:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woywitka View Post
You and I would get along very well. Love the work you are doing, getting your hands dirty and using the internet.

Your engine has 230,000kms, has it been rebuilt?
I have no idea,
I have some old receipts that showed a lightened flywheel put in and a recon turbo but that's it,
when I got mine it was leaking as fast as I poured the oil in so I got under the car cleaned it and tightened every nut I could reach, some of them were finger tight (Seriously) I was amazed but after I tightened them all up the oil stopped leaking, then I bought a compression tester for $40 and tested the cylinders each one showed 100psi exactly don't know if good but I do know that it is important to not have a lot of variation so im happy with that, then I drove it and forgot to put on the right side leads, I thought she drove great then I plugged on the other 3 spark plug leads and she drove even better lol
I do know that Because of the very low compression these engines have they last for a long long time, nearly as long as SC cars, as they are all basically the same engine except for the turbo, it was the intro of the 75-77 930 and Carrera 3.0 that paved the way for the 911sc, as the combination Porsche found it was the reliability and longetivetity they were looking for from the less reliable 2.7 cars..

Don't let the engine look put you off or the look of the car put you off, if I had the money id buy them all , I mean that , whatever condition and restore each and every one.

ITs great if you can DIY you will save big $$$ and like I said before if you love the 930 it really doesn't matter , its yours and you can spend the rest of your life making her better and better, ..They are still the lowest supercar money can buy, during the seventies and eighties 930's were beating the pants off Ferraris, LAmborghinis and thrashing Americas most revered Muscle Car the 454V corvette, no car could get within 3 seconds 0-100 of the 930, I think the Ferrari was closest at 8.5 sec 0-100, makes you wonder why 930 prices are so low?

Think about that a 1970's American 454 Corvette couldn't get close to these cars, in any gear at any speed, 930's eat them for breakfast and farts them out in its flaming exhaust.

I think the most important thing if your a buyer when looking to buy is
matching numbers of the engine and Vin, Make sure and doubly sure it matches that its a real live 930

if you got that then your more than halfway there.
second most important thing is to buy one that's neglected and make her better.
this is good for buyer also because if you diy then you save big $$$ and you've got a bargain!

so hopefully the PPI will come back with really bad numbers then you can bring the price down more..

i got mine for 24k and it is the most reliable car ive owned, the only times she doesn't work is when ive stuffed things up cos i don't know what im doing, and that's where this site will help you, plus the parts dept here have all the parts youll likely ever need.

ps; buy lots of plastic ties
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:02 PM
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beancounter
 
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Leakdown? 20k for a reseal, case split, at a shop sounds normal to me. Figure 5k is labor, so 15k in parts. Now we're back to the 15k "evaporating" concept.

DIY will save you $ and be a fantastic learning and bonding with the car experience, but parts for these cars are not cheap. My full engine rebuild cost me nearly 20k, we me doing all the work. 20k was parts ands machine shop services. I did make upgrades, so had I done a "stock" rebuild I may have saved ~5k (delete twin plug, and cam regrind). when the engine is apart, you will measure the P&Cs. if they are not in spec, you will replace them, right? "reseal" becomes "rebuild" and add 4k to the bill. Remember that's just the engine. You still have clutch, trans, brakes, probably wheel bearings (rears are $$ to do properly), maybe some CIS parts to fix/replace. Hopefully you begin to understand how quickly a 930 with needs can vacuum money out or your wallet. You'll never have more fun emptying your wallet though, IMO
Old 10-08-2014, 03:03 AM
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^^^Lots of value and enjoyment for the money... Go for it!
Old 10-08-2014, 04:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #53 (permalink)
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Ok, ok, after reading the test drive I will retract my estimate of $50K. I thought it was a reasonably well serviced car. Sounds like the original owner stopped using it because of it being not much fun to own with all these problems looming. Still a great color and options with a known history. When recomissioned still worth the effort, and you will know exactly what you have done to make it the way you want it. So I'll still say it's worth $40K, it will cost twice that when finished to get one as nice.
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Old 10-08-2014, 12:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #54 (permalink)
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So I'm leaning towards negotiating this car to buy it.

Question, the PPI revealed a possible stuck distributor advance. The symptoms are terrible high boost pinging and cutting in and out. Boost comes on fine but then bucks and pings (bit of smoke out the back on high boost)

How easy is it to rebuild or perhaps free up the distributor and the advance mechanism? Can I do this myself?

If I get the car I will do a full service, machine the rotors, flush out the brake fluid and put a heavier weight oil in 20W50. Drive it for a bit and see what happens.

The rear wheels bearing(s) are making noise. How big of a deal is it to change them? Why is it expensive? Can I do it myself? Only wheels bearing I did was on my Mercedes 300SD, I paid $20 for a machine shop to press in a new race and carefully following internet instructions of not over tightening the bearing hold down ended with a great result . 25,000km later and still works a treat. $50 all in.
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1975 914 1.8
1980 Mercedes 300 SD
Old 10-08-2014, 12:40 PM
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Troubleshooting a vacuum advance isn't hard and is pretty reasonable to do. Look it up in the technical forums.

If you've ruled out non-distributor related vacuum issues and can't resolve the dizzy yourself, Ed Fall @ Vintage Werks is your guy. It will come back as-new and cost you less than $200.

http://vintagewerks.com.
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Old 10-08-2014, 12:47 PM
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beancounter
 
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Once again: Leakdown?

Stuck distributor advance worries me. Stuck how? Stuck at full advance? The distributor needs to retard timing on boost or else detonation, which leads to the nightmarish broken rings and melty pistons as seen in photos I posted earlier.

So you want to buy this car? Fine, great, you have a willing group of enablers here. You simply can't make a good decision on how to price without leakdown #s IMO.
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Old 10-08-2014, 01:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #57 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwasbury View Post
Stuck distributor advance worries me. Stuck how? Stuck at full advance?
This wasn't explicit in my earlier posts, but if this thing is knocking when on boost, there's a chance you've got smashed rings in the motor. This is why a leakdown is imperative.
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- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930

Last edited by kenikh; 10-08-2014 at 02:02 PM..
Old 10-08-2014, 01:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #58 (permalink)
 
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They did not do a leakdown during the PPI. I would have to take it back to have this done as they were very busy. I'm expecting to have to rebuild the engine anyways because of what they said about the oil leaks. SO does it really matter?

There is no piston coming out of the case, there is no banging or knocking sound, so I would expect I can salvage some parts.

It's a tough spot, the owner is getting kind of tired, he's very old, thinks the car is great, this is just a lot to put out in front of him. gah.

You've all been great with your advice and I appreciate it. There is only so much I can put this seller through.
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1978 911 SC Targa
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1980 Mercedes 300 SD
Old 10-08-2014, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woywitka View Post
They did not do a leakdown during the PPI. I would have to take it back to have this done as they were very busy. I'm expecting to have to rebuild the engine anyways because of what they said about the oil leaks. SO does it really matter?

There is no piston coming out of the case, there is no banging or knocking sound, so I would expect I can salvage some parts.

It's a tough spot, the owner is getting kind of tired, he's very old, thinks the car is great, this is just a lot to put out in front of him. gah.

You've all been great with your advice and I appreciate it. There is only so much I can put this seller through.
Then no, no reason.

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Old 10-08-2014, 02:41 PM
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