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TurboKraft's Avatar
 
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Top reasons overheard for sticking with CIS instead of converting to EFI:

10. "CIS runs so much better on this modern alcohol-blended gasoline."

9. "Cars without computers don't break down."

8. "Who needs a tidy engine compartment that makes service easy?"

7. "I'd rather spend all that time and money restoring 35-year-old obsolete parts."

6. "Having perfect AFRs at all loads/rpms is for sissies."

5. "Throttle response is over-rated."

4. "Modified sports car are supposed to have single digit fuel economy."

3. "I ♥ turbo lag."

2. "I really wouldn't know what to do with another 75hp and 100ft.lb. of torque anyway."

1. "CIS: it's the future, I tell ya!"

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Old 10-17-2014, 10:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #81 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Top reasons overheard for sticking with CIS instead of converting to EFI:

10. "CIS runs so much better on this modern alcohol-blended gasoline."

9. "Cars without computers don't break down."

8. "Who needs a tidy engine compartment that makes service easy?"

7. "I'd rather spend all that time and money restoring 35-year-old obsolete parts."

6. "Having perfect AFRs at all loads/rpms is for sissies."

5. "Throttle response is over-rated."

4. "Modified sports car are supposed to have single digit fuel economy."

3. "I ♥ turbo lag."

2. "I really wouldn't know what to do with another 75hp and 100ft.lb. of torque anyway."

1. "CIS: it's the future, I tell ya!"
That's a funny list but I gotta say #3 was pretty darn fun..especially for passegers...
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Old 10-18-2014, 01:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #82 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Top reasons overheard for sticking with CIS instead of converting to EFI:

10. "CIS runs so much better on this modern alcohol-blended gasoline."

9. "Cars without computers don't break down."

8. "Who needs a tidy engine compartment that makes service easy?"

7. "I'd rather spend all that time and money restoring 35-year-old obsolete parts."

6. "Having perfect AFRs at all loads/rpms is for sissies."

5. "Throttle response is over-rated."

4. "Modified sports car are supposed to have single digit fuel economy."

3. "I ♥ turbo lag."

2. "I really wouldn't know what to do with another 75hp and 100ft.lb. of torque anyway."

1. "CIS: it's the future, I tell ya!"
Well done Chris. Cant think of a better list of 10 to justify my 2 efi 930s.
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Old 10-18-2014, 05:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #83 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Top reasons overheard for sticking with CIS instead of converting to EFI:
Good list but you should have included reason #11 "for sticking with CIS instead of converting to EFI"
I do not want to spend huge money to lower the value of a car that is already running fine.
Old 10-18-2014, 05:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #84 (permalink)
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No it's not a myth I had mine up and running for around 1500 when I started the mods the cost went up. I now have it using Megasquirt 3 and some other bits working towards being able to run E-85 or anything between.

Quote:
$1500 EFI is a myth. Used parts or build-your-own like Megasquirt? I would think that way out of the realm of a typical experience. If not we are all ears.

Last edited by gsmith660; 10-18-2014 at 07:55 AM..
Old 10-18-2014, 07:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #85 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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If you know WTF you are doing, are good at scavenging junkyards and are patient, it can be done. Not easy, but doable.
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Old 10-18-2014, 07:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #86 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Squirrel View Post
I might only suggest that you go ahead and mount the cylinder head temp sensor, and 60-2 flywheel, if the system you have in mind needs them.
Is there any advantage to having the teeth on the flywheel as opposed to a trigger wheel mounted to the crank pulley? I can't think of one.
Flywheels are expensive...
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Old 10-18-2014, 07:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #87 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911nut View Post
Is there any advantage to having the teeth on the flywheel as opposed to a trigger wheel mounted to the crank pulley? I can't think of one.
Flywheels are expensive...
Bigger diameter = better resolution
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Old 10-18-2014, 08:01 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #88 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
Bigger diameter = better resolution
I believe MegaSquirt tested accuracy of a 36-1 to around 18k RPM?

We've nothing to worry about!
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Old 10-18-2014, 08:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #89 (permalink)
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Theoretical, not practical. Otherwise, we'd all be running cam end sensors.
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Old 10-18-2014, 08:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #90 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Top reasons overheard for sticking with CIS instead of converting to EFI:

10. "CIS runs so much better on this modern alcohol-blended gasoline."

9. "Cars without computers don't break down."

8. "Who needs a tidy engine compartment that makes service easy?"

7. "I'd rather spend all that time and money restoring 35-year-old obsolete parts."

6. "Having perfect AFRs at all loads/rpms is for sissies."

5. "Throttle response is over-rated."

4. "Modified sports car are supposed to have single digit fuel economy."

3. "I ♥ turbo lag."

2. "I really wouldn't know what to do with another 75hp and 100ft.lb. of torque anyway."

1. "CIS: it's the future, I tell ya!"
The heart icon gave me a chuckle.
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 10-18-2014, 08:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #91 (permalink)
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So I guess this thread was started just to bait and make fun of CIS.

Well I am very happy you all have an extra bank account you don't need and a 930 you don't want to drive for 3 years while Tommy Tuner tries to figure out why it won't run.
If you don't like turbo lag buy a Lexus. Turbo lag is part of the legacy of the 930, just like CIS. I don't want to drive a car that is on boost at idle, that's what a V8 is for. Jeckle-Hyde is part of the charm.
You cannot compare an modern engine managment system to an old school mechanical fuel injection system, especially if that system is 30 years old and has never been serviced. Too many folks have no idea what a refreshed CIS system is capable of. 20+mpg and good fuel curves.
Why not yank that antiquated MFI out of the 2.7RS and add EFI, it's old and crappy after all.
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Old 10-18-2014, 10:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #92 (permalink)
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Honestly with a couple key strokes on EFI, its easy to match the CIS fueling and give an engine copious amounts of fuel in the mid range and on decel, lean it out on top end, and program the coil packs to match a stock dizzy's curve.
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Old 10-18-2014, 10:51 AM
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Shiiiiiiiit, MFI had better throttle response than EFI.
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Old 10-18-2014, 11:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #94 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Top reasons overheard for sticking with CIS instead of converting to EFI:

10. "CIS runs so much better on this modern alcohol-blended gasoline."

9. "Cars without computers don't break down."

8. "Who needs a tidy engine compartment that makes service easy?"

7. "I'd rather spend all that time and money restoring 35-year-old obsolete parts."

6. "Having perfect AFRs at all loads/rpms is for sissies."

5. "Throttle response is over-rated."

4. "Modified sports car are supposed to have single digit fuel economy."

3. "I ♥ turbo lag."

2. "I really wouldn't know what to do with another 75hp and 100ft.lb. of torque anyway."

1. "CIS: it's the future, I tell ya!"
#10 is serious because the 10% ethanol content in todays E10 gas is only going to go up. Our ______ president is as far from being a car guy as it gets so he doesn't care about what happens to older classic cars with this ______ gas we'll be getting in the future.

From what I've read the original o-rings in CIS fuel heads can handle E10 for a while now but it makes them rot away eventually. They say the ethanol content in gasoline is going to go up in the future and when it does the original o-rings in CIS fuel heads will swell up or disolve or just rot away inside the fuel heads making them unusable and needing a rebuild with modern o-rings to work again.
CIS Flowtech can do that for you or you can buy aftermarket USA made fuel head rebuild kits with modern o-rings on ebay and try doing it yourself.
Old 10-18-2014, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
Shiiiiiiiit, MFI had better throttle response than EFI.
Ever taken a look at an old Mercedes 6.3 motor with Bosch MFI. They were in the old 280SEL 6.3 and very impressive. One of those motors swapped into a DeTomaso Pantera would have been cool.
https://www.google.com/search?q=detomaso+pantera&client=aff-maxthon-maxthon4&channel=t3&biw=1372&bih=680&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=375CVL2WN4mh8QGS9YDoCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQsAQ
Old 10-18-2014, 11:26 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #96 (permalink)
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Quote:
So I guess this thread was started just to bait and make fun of CIS.



Well I am very happy you all have an extra bank account you don't need and a 930 you don't want to drive for 3 years while Tommy Tuner tries to figure out why it won't run.

If you don't like turbo lag buy a Lexus. Turbo lag is part of the legacy of the 930, just like CIS. I don't want to drive a car that is on boost at idle, that's what a V8 is for. Jeckle-Hyde is part of the charm.

You cannot compare an modern engine managment system to an old school mechanical fuel injection system, especially if that system is 30 years old and has never been serviced. Too many folks have no idea what a refreshed CIS system is capable of. 20+mpg and good fuel curves.

Why not yank that antiquated MFI out of the 2.7RS and add EFI, it's old and crappy after all.
Seriously, Brian, that was not my intention. I *assumed* that it was universally accepted everyone eventually wanted EFI.

I have driven a well sorted CIS 965 that ran better than my EFI due to old school injectors I had.

Running modern injectors now, the car was transformed, and tuning now has become a breeze.

With a base file, I can get a car running good in about 30 minutes.

The great part takes longer as you have to hit areas the car doesn't see much.

Lastly, the most modern EFI systems can tune themselves.

You have to do the initial setup and "accelerator pump" settings, but these things are not too bad to learn. It's all documented.

There's no more "black magic" to tuning.

Heck, my dad who struggles with computers and iPhone installed F.A.S.T. EFI on a customers vehicle and was driving it in a matter of hours.

It's not the '90's anymore...
Old 10-18-2014, 11:38 AM
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Why would you assume everyone wants EFI? Microsoft assumed everyone wanted 8.0 too.
If I wanted EFI I'd buy a modern car. The 930 for me is a period car and some of us enjoy it that way.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 10-18-2014, 02:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #98 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Why would you assume everyone wants EFI? Microsoft assumed everyone wanted 8.0 too.
If I wanted EFI I'd buy a modern car. The 930 for me is a period car and some of us enjoy it that way.
Right on.
I do not want EFI any more than I want a new Turbo, and if I wanted my 930 to run like a new Turbo I would just buy a newer one, they are cheaper after all
Old 10-18-2014, 06:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #99 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Top reasons overheard for sticking with CIS instead of converting to EFI:


2. "I really wouldn't know what to do with another 75hp and 100ft.lb. of torque anyway."
The whole list was fun to read (I don't have anything against CIS, but I can still appreciate the list's humor), but #2 really had me rolling! It's what I always think of when people say how you should leave the stock intercooler, turbo, ect. on these cars for some sort of nostalgic reason.

Old 10-18-2014, 07:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #100 (permalink)
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