Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,844
Quote:

Quote de Tippy



Now, you can spend 20 hours alone on your MIL spec harness alone like "billjam".

If you search in the 911 forum, he has built a harness that is top notch.

I was fine with simple flex conduit with mine as nearly ALL OEM use this method.

Mil-spec is also how we build all harnesses at TurboKraft, too: heat/abrasion/chemical-resistant flexible shrink tubing, adhesive-sealed shrink junctures, printed shrink-tube labels, factory and Deutsch connectors, quick-disconnect bulkhead connector, fine-strand lightweight aviation/motorsport wiring, etc. Materials cost just over $1k, and it's very time-intensive at just over 2 days to build a 2-piece chassis+engine harness.

We don't care for the plastic split-loom stuff (sorry Tippy, no offense friend, it looks 1980s-90s GM not German to us!), nor the braided covering (dirt and grime trap).

So just in wiring, you can have a huge difference in price.



Similarly, there's a wide range in prices on ECUs: MS < SDS < AEM < Motec < etc.



That's part of what makes answering the question "how much does EFI cost" so nebulous -- it's like asking "how much does a car cost?" There's no fixed answer, it depends on what you want, your tastes, your expectations of quality.
No offense taken, your harnesses are artwork. Most folks just won't have the time nor knowledge to replicate.

Now I think about it, you're right, the corrugated flex conduit looks a little 80's and later Big 3; but I'm ok with it and know many cars from that era who have had no issues to this day using this "cheaper" method.

It's like Motec; if you can afford it, buy it!

Old 10-20-2014, 11:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #141 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TurboKraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff NJ View Post
I am someone that has (for the moment at least) decided that CIS is good enough for me...
...I expect a bigger smile with my proposed upgrades and I don't need to go any further to be a VERY happy 930 owner.
Well said. That's what's important in the end -- whether you're happy.
If not, you're doing it wrong.
These cars are supposed to be fun, and the mods you do should increase the fun factor.
__________________
Chris Carroll
TurboKraft, Inc.
Tel. 480.969.0911
email: info@turbokraft.com
http://www.facebook.com/TurboKraft - http://www.instagram.com/TurboKraft
Old 10-20-2014, 01:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #142 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,844
Quote:
OK, Fine, If you do not use EFI you are throwing money away and leaving power on the table Ok I get it.

Let's talk facts

So I if I want to buy a bolt on EFI system that I can tune what are the hard numbers, where it can be found and purchased today.

Show us facts, please. No "I did mine for around $1,500"

Let's see what you really have to spend to go EFI today.
Fickle, please PM so I can size up your car and expectancy. Rather not muddy up this thread and what is said be a blanket solution.
Old 10-20-2014, 01:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #143 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Back in B'ham, AL
Posts: 3,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Well said. That's what's important in the end -- whether you're happy.
If not, you're doing it wrong.
These cars are supposed to be fun, and the mods you do should increase the fun factor.
Right on!
Old 10-21-2014, 04:50 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #144 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Porsche 935's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Spring Hill, Florida
Posts: 457
Garage
There is a complete Electromotive TEC3R for sale for $1500 on the forum site. These can be run with nothing more than a crank wheel, map sensor, temp sensor, and TPS sensor. I have been running various versions of this set up for 25 years. Easy tuning, user friendly- just need a wideband O2 in the exhaust.
Old 10-21-2014, 05:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #145 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,844
Quote:
There is a complete Electromotive TEC3R for sale for $1500 on the forum site. These can be run with nothing more than a crank wheel, map sensor, temp sensor, and TPS sensor. I have been running various versions of this set up for 25 years. Easy tuning, user friendly- just need a wideband O2 in the exhaust.
That's all I have too.

Speed density is simple.

One thing I'd like to add is knock control. Should go hand and hand with boosting.
Old 10-21-2014, 06:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #146 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
dos531's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 758
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
That's all I have too.

Speed density is simple.

One thing I'd like to add is knock control. Should go hand and hand with boosting.
I love my J&S Safeguard. I dont know why more people don't use them.
__________________
'86 930 Guards Red - EFI MS3Pro, 80lb inj, 3.4, GT35R, Tial 46, Bosch 044, B&B Headers, 3.2 carrera manifold, Turbokraft Full bay IC
'12 Gallardo LP-570-4 Performante
'01 996tt
Ducati 748R
Old 10-21-2014, 10:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #147 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,844
Quote:

Quote de Tippy



That's all I have too.



Speed density is simple.



One thing I'd like to add is knock control. Should go hand and hand with boosting.

I love my J&S Safeguard. I dont know why more people don't use them.
Agree. In my case, it costs half of what my total EMS costed.

Is it worth it? Every penny.
Old 10-21-2014, 11:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #148 (permalink)
Registered User
 
dos531's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 758
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
Agree. In my case, it costs half of what my total EMS costed.

Is it worth it? Every penny.
It is certainly not cheap, but compared to motor work its chump change. If you keep an eye out you can find used ones for pretty cheap. The older units go for around $100-200 on ebay. You dont get the features of the new ones, but your ECU does all that anyways. I did look for used units for a while, but eventually I just bit the bullet and bought a new one from John at J&S. Also, he answered probably a dozen emails from me about the unit so I wanted to give him the business. I'll be keeping the J&S even after I upgrade to EFI.
__________________
'86 930 Guards Red - EFI MS3Pro, 80lb inj, 3.4, GT35R, Tial 46, Bosch 044, B&B Headers, 3.2 carrera manifold, Turbokraft Full bay IC
'12 Gallardo LP-570-4 Performante
'01 996tt
Ducati 748R
Old 10-21-2014, 12:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #149 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,844
Quote:

Quote de Tippy



Agree. In my case, it costs half of what my total EMS costed.



Is it worth it? Every penny.

It is certainly not cheap, but compared to motor work its chump change. If you keep an eye out you can find used ones for pretty cheap. The older units go for around $100-200 on ebay. You dont get the features of the new ones, but your ECU does all that anyways. I did look for used units for a while, but eventually I just bit the bullet and bought a new one from John at J&S. Also, he answered probably a dozen emails from me about the unit so I wanted to give him the business. I'll be keeping the J&S even after I upgrade to EFI.
Good to know, thanks.
Old 10-21-2014, 01:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #150 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TurboKraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,669
If knock control isn't integrated into your ECU, the J&S is great.

I'd submit full Lambda feedback/control as an essential function, too.
__________________
Chris Carroll
TurboKraft, Inc.
Tel. 480.969.0911
email: info@turbokraft.com
http://www.facebook.com/TurboKraft - http://www.instagram.com/TurboKraft
Old 10-21-2014, 03:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #151 (permalink)
Happiest when Tinkering
 
gsmith660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4,184
Tippy and Chris Carroll have nailed this for sure! This is all about the wow and fun to drive the car if you got your car as an investment then by all means do all you can to keep it stock. My car started life as a franken porsche and is completely modded so anything goes as for resale that is something my daughter will have to worry about when she gets it from me if she doesnt want to carry on as I have done. I put EFI on the car for fun and nothing more.
__________________
" Porsche there is no substitute" I always liked that saying. Air cooled is the only way to go!
76 911 C.R.A.P. Gruppe #2 BIG time TURBO C.R.A.P. Bitz EFI/EDIS Now MegaSquirt 3
76 Blazer also restored by me
Old 10-22-2014, 07:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #152 (permalink)
 
Happiest when Tinkering
 
gsmith660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4,184
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
If knock control isn't integrated into your ECU, the J&S is great.

I'd submit full Lambda feedback/control as an essential function, too.
I have megasquirt 3 now so i would like the take on using that knock control versus the J&S unit
__________________
" Porsche there is no substitute" I always liked that saying. Air cooled is the only way to go!
76 911 C.R.A.P. Gruppe #2 BIG time TURBO C.R.A.P. Bitz EFI/EDIS Now MegaSquirt 3
76 Blazer also restored by me
Old 10-22-2014, 07:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #153 (permalink)
beancounter
 
jwasbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weehawken, NJ
Posts: 3,624
Actually, I think the "nailed it" point of this thread was made back on page 3, post #55 by Jamie. He used the word "passion" rather than "fun" but the message was the same...do what make YOU happy.

The "why not EFI" debate is ultimately the same debate as "factory original vs. modify" debate. Entirely subjective depending on what YOU want from YOUR 930 ownership experience. There is no calculus formula or scientific reasoning that can be universally applied...that is the nature of subjectivity, each individual's "calculus" will follow a different set of rules.

My calculus: the incremental "fun" I would receive from converting to EFI < the incremental resources (time, energy, & money) I would need allocate to an EFI project. Given that resources (time, energy, & money) are finite, I choose to allocate them to places where I believe I will receive the maximum incremental "fun" - For me, at my current time and place, its not EFI for the 930. YCMV (Your Calculus May Vary).

May the debate rage on for infinity
__________________
Jacob
Current: 1983 911 GT4 Race Car / 1999 Spec Miata / 2000 MB SL500 / 1998 MB E300TD / 1998 BMW R1100RT / 2016 KTM Duke 690
Past: 2009 997 Turbo Cab / 1979 930
Old 10-22-2014, 07:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #154 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 259
i plan on an EFI and distributorless set up some day on my 86. In the meantime my stock CDI/CIS engine is making over 320 rwhp, starts instantly regardless of weather, and does fine for legal street driving. I'll start the conversion when the CDI box finally fails. The work looks pretty straight forward.

So I guess my sole reason for holding back is simply to leave well enough alone for the moment.
Old 10-22-2014, 08:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #155 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,062
Garage
Keep the 930 stock and pick up a cheap 996tt you won't even care if you wreck those.
__________________
Lincoln Phillip
87 930 Motec EFI M600 G50/50 TurboKrafted Hell Hound.
Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge, Ram, SRT & AEV Dealer pm me for your Mopar needs.
"the 930 is THE CAR that started my PORSCHE love affair..." Magnus Walker
Old 10-23-2014, 04:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #156 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North of Exit 17
Posts: 7,732
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHNELE View Post
Keep the 930 stock and pick up a cheap 996tt you won't even care if you wreck those.
For another 30 years and then...
__________________

- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 10-23-2014, 04:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #157 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,844
Quote:
Keep the 930 stock and pick up a cheap 996tt you won't even care if you wreck those.
I can't imagine keeping a 930 stock since its so easy to make over 400 hp with bolt ons that are reversible.
Old 10-24-2014, 06:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #158 (permalink)
Registered User
 
H2odiesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 125
Cory, clean out your PMs please
Old 10-25-2014, 09:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #159 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,844
Quote:
Cory, clean out your PMs please
Will do, thanks

Old 10-25-2014, 10:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #160 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:44 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.